(Composing) Developing Past The Melody?

[Matthew_84]

Hi all, been a while!

I’d love to get into composing instrumental tracks but I always hit the same roadblock...

Basically, I always start writing a tune after I get a melody in my head. I record my singing of it on my phone and then sit down with my bass and/or sequencer software, pick out the notes, maybe add an accompanying instrument and drums, until I come up with something okay over that melody.

However, every time, I try to write another melody (such as maybe an intro before it or try to add to it with another melody after), it sounds terrible. It never seems to fit the feel of the original melody (even if the key is the same) and the project dies there.

Does anyone have any tips, or know of any courses or exercises I can do to turn this one melody into a full tune with multiple melodies and phrases?

The worst part is my brain seems to only think of melodies in 1 or 2 bars, so these projects I’ve worked on are all very short and need a lot of additions to make something cohesive and entertaining.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bob_Ross]

There are a million different approaches to this, but I'll just share the one that I've probably gotten the most mileage out of:

Once you have codified some of what the material will be -- it could be the melody, it could be an accompanying figure, it could be 2 bars long or 32 bars long, whatever -- see if you can identify a defining characteristic of that material. Something that makes it uniquely this material rather than an undifferentiated string of notes; perhaps it's the shape of a phrase, or a particular intervallic distribution (i.e., several relatively small intervals followed by a large leap) or a rhythmic motif, a cell or device that figures prominently enough in your material that it feels like without that defining characteristic it would no longer be your tune.

Then once you've identified what that characteristic is ...see if you can employ that same characteristic to construct additional material that could serve as counter-melodies or background figures or development sections. Don't just parrot the device literally; but think of it as a conceptual element that can be expanded/contracted both temporally and intervallically.

==========

More:
The late Joseph Maneri used to refer to this approach as "Motific Development" and one of the exercises he used to get his composition students to generate new material was to describe a very simple linear shape ...e.g.,

__^__

or, slightly less simple,

__^_/ - \/

and then have the student come up with as many possible melodic cells that describe that shape in some way. Remember, since both the horizontal and vertical scales aren't defined in those line drawings -- and since there's nothing that says time has to pass at a consistent rate from start to finish, or that it can't go right-to-left, etc. -- there are literally hundreds if not thousands of motifs that can be inspired by and be embodiments of those shapes.

Find the motif that defines your existing material. Abstract it down to a linear shape. Then start writing variations.

 

[Matthew_84]

There are a million different approaches to this, but I'll just share the one that I've probably gotten the most mileage out of:

Once you have codified some of what the material will be -- it could be the melody, it could be an accompanying figure, it could be 2 bars long or 32 bars long, whatever -- see if you can identify a defining characteristic of that material. Something that makes it uniquely this material rather than an undifferentiated string of notes; perhaps it's the shape of a phrase, or a particular intervallic distribution (i.e., several relatively small intervals followed by a large leap) or a rhythmic motif, a cell or device that figures prominently enough in your material that it feels like without that defining characteristic it would no longer be your tune.

Then once you've identified what that characteristic is ...see if you can employ that same characteristic to construct additional material that could serve as counter-melodies or background figures or development sections. Don't just parrot the device literally; but think of it as a conceptual element that can be expanded/contracted both temporally and intervallically.

==========

More:
The late Joseph Maneri used to refer to this approach as "Motific Development" and one of the exercises he used to get his composition students to generate new material was to describe a very simple linear shape ...e.g.,

__^__

or, slightly less simple,

__^_/ - \/

and then have the student come up with as many possible melodic cells that describe that shape in some way. Remember, since both the horizontal and vertical scales aren't defined in those line drawings -- and since there's nothing that says time has to pass at a consistent rate from start to finish, or that it can't go right-to-left, etc. -- there are literally hundreds if not thousands of motifs that can be inspired by and be embodiments of those shapes.

Find the motif that defines your existing material. Abstract it down to a linear shape. Then start writing variations.

Interesting idea and premise!

I usually think something along the lines of using a bit of it for a motif, but my efforts were always much simpler and in the case of the 2-bar melody I was working on today, just repeating the first bar and come up with a variation for the second, but anything I came up with sounded forced, and boring.

This is a much more fluid (and less formulaic) approach - and I like that very much. Thank you!

 

[Malcolm35]

I start with a cookie cutter chord progression and the melody comes from the chord's notes plus a few other needed notes. If the melody covers two bars you will need 4 to 6 chord tone notes plus some passing or augmenting notes.

Start with the active chord's pentatonic... That should give you something beyond the tune to work with.

Good luck, I know that is 180 degrees from what you are used to using.

 

[Matthew_84]

I start with a cookie cutter chord progression and the melody comes from the chord's notes plus a few other needed notes. If the melody covers two bars you will need 4 to 6 chord tone notes plus some passing or augmenting notes.

Start with the active chord's pentatonic... That should give you something beyond the tune to work with.

Good luck, I know that is 180 degrees from what you are used to using.

no worries! i’d like my melodies to be longer, and that would force it to be. thanks!

 

[mambo4]

I believe starting with the melody in your head and composing from there, as you are doing, yields the best results. Would suggest seeking intros or follow up parts the same way. Generally you build interest via contrast. If part A is many notes bunched together, make B fewer, longer notes. More rests vs less rests. Bigger melodic jumps vs more step wise motion. Phrase going up vs going down. Ending on the 3rd, 5th or the 4th instead of the 1.

Twinkle, twinkle , Little Star is case study in how to construct a coherent melody of contrasting phrases.

How's your understanding of harmony and cadences?
understanding the functional chord progression implied by your melody can point you to new ideas as well.

 

[GastonD]

I sincerely think this is the answer to your quest:Composition Through the Guitar.
Dana is an awesome player, composer and instructor, and this program really covers so much ground that I cannot begin to describe how good it is. Plus, he is an accessible guy, and if you ask him for specifics, he may recommend you the exact volume of the course to start with. As the matter of fact, tell him that Gagi sent you, and he may even give you a discount ;-)
https://www.danarobertrasch.com/copy-of-chord-melody-outline

 

[Malcolm35]

This may help.
how to write a song for beginners - Bing video

 

[BassChuck]

Everyone thinks about this stuff in different and personal ways, so there isn't going to be 'one' answer.
Here's what I do when I get stuck. I imagine that I'm playing a single drum with the melody, conga, bongo, whatever. Get a rhythm that I like that goes along with or, follows up what is done already. Notate the rhythm somehow and then find pitches to the rhythm notes. This is from the Russel Garcia book on orchestration, and it works pretty well for me. Good luck, enjoy the trip.

 

[Matthew_84]

How's your understanding of harmony and cadences?
understanding the functional chord progression implied by your melody can point you to new ideas as well.

Sorry for my delay. Had some stuff come up, but I appreciate your detailed response!

I know my scales and chords and stuff, but I have always been bad with cadences, chord progressions, and stuff like that. I have a list of a bunch of common chord progressions and that’s basically what I use to try and figure out what the progression of a song is I’m working on or transcribing.

 

[mambo4]

I have always been bad with cadences, chord progressions, and stuff like that.

one of the best resources to earn theory is to Google search "Rick Beato + <thing you want to learn>"!

 

[JRA]

IME: sometimes it's helpful to upend my comfort zone and do something radically different (on purpose) just to see where that takes me (dead ends vs. open country).

my brain seems to only think of melodies in 1 or 2 bars

you like to start with melodic phrases --- why not try to start with a rhythm, or chord changes, first? finding some progression of changes you like will almost always give you the complete verse/chorus/bridge upon which to build the melodic ideas you're famous for! good luck with your writing!


disclosure: these days i'm only writing instrumental music, so i'm not encumbered by words/lyrics.

 

[Matthew_84]

one of the best resources to earn theory is to Google search "Rick Beato + <thing you want to learn>"!

Thats a great video! Thanks! When I’m building my chord progressions, I’ve always only ever looked at the seven chords in a scale lol.

I’m going to watch more videos of his. Thanks again!

 

[Matthew_84]

...why not try to start with... chord changes, first?

I have tried this and sometimes yield decent results, but one of my issues has been a lack of understanding how chord progressions work (why one chord progression works better than another, etc) and how to construct them (which I’m going to look into now), but this lack of understanding would force me to just look up a list of chord progressions and play them to hear which ones I liked and build a song off that... The problem is I like some of these common (and very simple, as I didn't use relative chords or secondary dominants, etc) progressions more than others, so I just keep using two or three different progressions for everything I do.

That lesson mambo4 posted will help me a lot with that, but I definitely need to understand how to construct my own as well.

 

[JRA]

lack of understanding how chord progressions work

well, they work the way you want them to work! there are lots of 'traditional' progressions that yield "resolutions" which are expected (you actually know where things are going to go!), but the cool thing about writing is that you can use unexpected progressions and use melodic/harmonic ideas to give them 'legitimacy'.

my real point is that sometimes we can force ideas by introducing novel (to us) approaches. doing things the same way over and over will almost always yield similar/same results.

also: listening to the works of others (and deconstructing their ideas) is a good way to look at composing from a fresh point of view! e.g., what is that cat doing (that i like) that i can steal or modify for my own use?