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Composing Music - Invention or Discovery?

I think that 90% or more of the intelligible rhythm + note combinations have been employed in the totality of recorded music that exists today. American music, by and large, consists of a riff structure in that there are licks and progressions or what have you that repeat on a factor of 4. These lines repeat every few-30+ seconds. Many musicians will use only 2-4 of these repeated lines in writing the music for a song: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, b-section, chorus, chorus.

It is my opinion, then, that popular music today consists largely of discovery. A guitarist, for example, may pick up his guitar with the intention to write something. He may wank off for a bit and then stumble upon something that doesn't sound too terrible and can be repeated often enough to base a song around it. This is discovery. The riff wasn't crafted, it was happened upon. And most likely the note sequence used can be found in countless other songs the guitarist may or may not have heard. Generally, a subtle variance in rhythm and the tonal elements of the instrument/setup with which it is played are the only hints at originality. With this approach, entire works (songs) are largely a reorginization of existing musical ideas (melodies, licks, riffs, chord progressions, etc.). To me, this is the essence of most modern groups. Motifs, themes, and riffs are borrowed and rearranged and placed with other borrowed (intentionally or not) ideas.

To me, to truly invent or create a song means you approached the instrument with a new musical idea and made it happen.

You may say that the riff approach doesn't apply to improvisational music or jazz and other types of music but I think it does. When I listen to improvisational groups, jazz groups, and others I see the same themes and ideas used over and over again. It makes me sad, really.
 
But, isn't it possible that invention IS discovery?

to truly invent or create a song means you approached the instrument with a new musical idea and made it happen

Where did that new musical idea come from? Could you find it some way other than discovering it? Even if it just pops into your head - if you think to yourself "Hmm, I'm going to do so-and-so". Where did that thought come from? Or, where did the impulse to have that thought come from?

The basic gist: where does something that never existed before come from?
 
by your logic then, the arrangement of discovered themes and riffs should constitute invention, since it is the creation of a new way of reproducing old ideas.

I don't see how that's by my logic, but I'll give you that a new arrangement of old ideas is an innovation.



The basic gist: where does something that never existed before come from?

The depths of the soul? I don't know. What's your point?
 
Originally posted by Eulogist

The depths of the soul? I don't know. What's your point?

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "invention". If it's really something new, then it came from somewhere else. If you built it using things that already existed, then the impulse to do so was new, and therefore came from somewhere else.

Either way, I feel that you (generic you) weren't the source. So, there's an element of discovery to invention.
 
Originally posted by Eulogist
It is my opinion, then, that popular music today consists largely of discovery. A guitarist, for example, may pick up his guitar with the intention to write something. He may wank off for a bit and then stumble upon something that doesn't sound too terrible and can be repeated often enough to base a song around it. This is discovery. The riff wasn't crafted, it was happened upon.

Well - you're just talking about a small sub-section of guitar-based popular music.

You just need to listen to more, different types of music - there is whole world of music out there that is composed and invented.

The above, just betrays a very narrow view of what music is about.
 
Originally posted by Eulogist
It is my opinion, then, that popular music today consists largely of discovery. A guitarist, for example, may pick up his guitar with the intention to write something. He may wank off for a bit and then stumble upon something that doesn't sound too terrible and can be repeated often enough to base a song around it. This is discovery. The riff wasn't crafted, it was happened upon.

I disagree. I think this is creation - just creation not on the mental level. When McCartney wrote yesterday, he woke up with the tune in his head, went to a piano, found the chords, and made the song. Do you really think McCartney discovered Yesterday, rather than creating it? I say it's creation, just on a different level. In fact I think the best creation can be done without using the mind at all.
 
So, there's an element of discovery to invention.

- Agreed

Well - you're just talking about a small sub-section of guitar-based popular music.

- Please re-read:

You may say that the riff approach doesn't apply to improvisational music or jazz and other types of music but I think it does. When I listen to improvisational groups, jazz groups, and others I see the same themes and ideas used over and over again. It makes me sad, really.

_

I disagree. I think this is creation - just creation not on the mental level. When McCartney wrote yesterday, he woke up with the tune in his head, went to a piano, found the chords, and made the song. Do you really think McCartney discovered Yesterday, rather than creating it? I say it's creation, just on a different level. In fact I think the best creation can be done without using the mind at all.

- Again, Please re-read:

To me, to truly invent or create a song means you approached the instrument with a new musical idea and made it happen.

You just illustrated a case of the very circumstance I was referencing. However, if the motif of the song had been used before, then it falls on the side of discovery.




Don't get illiterate on me here people.
 

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