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Confederate Flag over amps. Please no racism!

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#21
To some guys a bit older than myself:

How did Skynard get away with using it? I mean I guess I have a different view growing up in a post-civil rights world, but I've never heard anybody complain about them using it. Was it different back when they first started?
 
#22
I would avoid it myself (The good Dr. is right.) There are certainly ways to establish a Southern vibe without using that flag. I'm a big Drive-By Truckers fan--they're as Southern as it gets, but I've never seen that flag anywhere near them.
 
#23
Hi.

OT. Damn, don't You just plain hate it when you type a lenghty response and the browser freezes :(.

Anyway.

Any symbol or any colours/flag that's associated with racism, will be viewed as such. Worldwide.

Just as U]any[/U] symbol or any colours/flag that's associated with politics, will be viewed as such. Again, worldwide.

Only the ignorant and/or misinformed will think otherwise.


Two stories:

#1

When Lynyrd Skynyrd came to finland for the first time in the 90's they played in the Järvenpää Puisto Blues. The other acts in the line up were mainly old African American blues musicians. The MC politely asked that in order to respect the old blues men, the flags should stay down during their performances. And the people obeyed, out of respect. We were there to enjoy perhaps the finest selection of performers there ever was (sold out for the first time), not to piss the legends off.


#2

Back in the late 90's I was teaching wood/metal shop in the upper secondary school. One kid especially liked the Che Guevara symbols. When I asked him if that really was the kind of idealism he believed in, he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I suggested The Motorcycle Diaries for one kind of view and the assorted political writings of Che for the other view. I don't know what he read, if anything, but he stopped wearing the symbols. Out of free will.
I didn't want to force him to change his ideology if that was the reason, but pro-communism doesn't fly particularily well in Finland ;).


As for using a flag of any country to cover anything but a coffin, is disgrasing and dishonoring the flag. I do admit that back in the day we had the US flag (a real one) on the wall of our rehearsal space, something I wouldn't dream of doing anymore.

Regards
Sam
 
#24
T-Bird said:
Hi.

OT. Damn, don't You just plain hate it when you type a lenghty response and the browser freezes :(.

Anyway.

Any symbol or any colours/flag that's associated with racism, will be viewed as such. Worldwide.

Just as U]any[/U] symbol or any colours/flag that's associated with politics, will be viewed as such. Again, worldwide.

Only the ignorant and/or misinformed will think otherwise.


Two stories:

#1

When Lynyrd Skynyrd came to finland for the first time in the 90's they played in the Järvenpää Puisto Blues. The other acts in the line up were mainly old African American blues musicians. The MC politely asked that in order to respect the old blues men, the flags should stay down during their performances. And the people obeyed, out of respect. We were there to enjoy perhaps the finest selection of performers there ever was (sold out for the first time), not to piss the legends off.


#2

Back in the late 90's I was teaching wood/metal shop in the upper secondary school. One kid especially liked the Che Guevara symbols. When I asked him if that really was the kind of idealism he believed in, he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I suggested The Motorcycle Diaries for one kind of view and the assorted political writings of Che for the other view. I don't know what he read, if anything, but he stopped wearing the symbols. Out of free will.
I didn't want to force him to change his ideology if that was the reason, but pro-communism doesn't fly particularily well in Finland ;).


As for using a flag of any country to cover anything but a coffin, is disgrasing and dishonoring the flag. I do admit that back in the day we had the US flag (a real one) on the wall of our rehearsal space, something I wouldn't dream of doing anymore.

Regards
Sam
Click to expand...


Great insight. Like I said, I was born post-cold war, post-red scare, post-civil rights. I grew up in a tolerant household in areas where I was able to associate with diverse people and suffered no disrespect because of it. To me, symbols are symbols and I really am thankful that I grew up in a time where that's all that they are. The reason I asked is because the kids I associate with really see everything as I do: with very little connotation attached. I guess that's a good thing?

Hijacking my own thread:

Let's play count the flags in this video:
:bassist:

Kind of a funny segment, just felt like lightening things up a bit.
Notice one of the trumpet player's hats.
 
#26
I had this whole long winded post typed out from the point of view of a southerner but then...I decided I didn't need the infraction points. I will say this, the stars and bars is the Rebel equivalent of the N word. It has totally different meanings depending on who is using it and how.

People that see it as a symbol of hate will always see it as that and only that.
 
#28
well, the swastika technicly is a symbol of peace in its original form. WHen it wasnt tilted, it was an indian symbol for peace. On of my friends did a project on it and got suspeneded for having a poster with the indian symbol on it, because no one cared what it believed in, just what the adaptation was. thats a completely different thing though
If you want to do it, do it. But people will make assumptions. I dont agree with them, but you cant deny the negative connotations that are connected with the flag.
 
#29
I like when you see white supremest rock bands, they clearly aren't doing the math, they should be white supremest polka bands!;) Silly racists..........
 
#30
Dude you are in Inverness. Nobody there is going to care. I'm Cuban/Southern American who grew up in South Florida and I see no problems with the Stars and Bars. I wish all the history buffs out there would recognize all the black volunteers who joined the confederacy to fight the North. The war started over the south wanting to tax the north on crop raised products, not slavery. Slavery is what the history books teach you, but go find yourself an older black person who was raised in the south and who grandparents told them stories. Or go to FSU and take some history classes there. Slavery wasn't required to live as a white man in the south, so not all white men were slave owners.
 
#32
powellmacaque said:
Hey guys. Before I start a huge flame fest, please note that I am not racist whatsoever. I also understand the negative connotations associated with this flag, but stick with me.

I may be joining a southern punk rock band, and as many of you know the confederate flag is a very big symbol in a lot of southern groups. I know the other guys have suggested me hanging a confederate flag from my amp, and to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with it because I see it as a southern symbol. The other guys in the band wear the stuff, and they're not racist either (if they were, I'd be out in an instant). Since this band is punk-related, they use it more as a sign of rebellion (kind of how the Sex Pistols used the Union Jack and the Anarchy symbol... these guys actually superimpose the Anarchy A into the Confederate flag).

Here's my deal: I'm not really southern (I was born and raised in NY) and I don't want to really ruin my chances of getting gigs from people who might be offended by this flag (I play more than just southern rock and have done hip-hop, gospel, latin, and motown-style gigs before). I was thinking of instead, draping the Bonnie Blue (flag of West Florida) or the Florida Flag on my amp instead. Is this a better alternative? I mean, if the band keeps the Confederate motif, I personally won't be too much against the flag to include it on my stuff, but like I said, I don't want to offend future employers.

Any suggestions? PLEASE don't turn this political/racial/social. I don't care what your views are, and I'm sorry if this is a touchy subject to some, but I just wanna know what I could do to avoid being seen as a bigot by others.

Edit: mods, if this gets out of hand at all, let me know. I really am not trying to start anything immature with this.
Click to expand...
i'm not from there either,but i have roots there.....i have the stars n bars on my wall,pickup, and elsewhere,and i don't particularly care what anyone thinks.....like they say,if ya gotta ask,you'll never understand
 
#33
RNV said:
Dude you are in Inverness. Nobody there is going to care. I'm Cuban/Southern American who grew up in South Florida and I see no problems with the Stars and Bars. I wish all the history buffs out there would recognize all the black volunteers who joined the confederacy to fight the North. The war started over the south wanting to tax the north on crop raised products, not slavery. Slavery is what the history books teach you, but go find yourself an older black person who was raised in the south and who grandparents told them stories. Or go to FSU and take some history classes there. Slavery wasn't required to live as a white man in the south, so not all white men were slave owners.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, there are millions of Cubans who love Fidel. Does that make it cool to you too? Yes, there were Black Confederates but the overwhelming number of Blacks went to the Union side as soon as they could and at 186,000 African Americans fought in the Union Army, a huge number considering that Dred Scott Decision of 1859 ruled that Black could not be citizens of the USA.

To say the Civil War was not about slavery simply ignores what the Confederates said themselves at the time. They made plenty of statements about the "necessity of slavery." The permanent status of slavery was in the Confederate consitution. No, all whites did not own slaves. Most were too poor. That did not mean that many did not aspire to own slaves.

For what it worth, I am a history professor, and although America is not my speciality, I have taught American history and African American history over the last twenty years.

Sorry for politics/history, but I needed to mention a few facts for clarity.
 
#34
Yeah, what kind of bass player in a punk band cares what anyone else thinks?

But, when someone beats the **** out of you over it, you can't say you weren't warned. What is a marketing tool to you evokes real emotion in other people. Heck, you'll be lucky if some Southern boy doesn't beat you up over being a poser by flying it. Something a real southern punk bassist might enjoy...

About a flag muffling the tone: 1) not if you're loud enough, and 2) what is this "tone" thing of which you speak? We are talking about a punk band. There's only one knob, and it says "Volume".
 
#35
Dr. Cheese said:
For what it's worth, there are millions of Cubans who love Fidel. Does that make it cool to you too? Yes, there were Black Confederates but the overwhelming number of Blacks went to the Union side as soon as they could and at 186,000 African Americans fought in the Union Army, a huge number considering that Dred Scott Decision of 1859 ruled that Black could not be citizens of the USA.

To say the Civil War was not about slavery simply ignores what the Confederates said themselves at the time. They made plenty of statements about the "necessity of slavery." The permanent status of slavery was in the Confederate consitution. No, all whites did not own slaves. Most were too poor. That did not mean that many did not aspire to own slaves.

For what it worth, I am a history professor, and although America is not my speciality, I have taught American history and African American history over the last twenty years.

Sorry for politics/history, but I needed to mention a few facts for clarity.
Click to expand...


Are you European History by chance?

My whole problem with the Union cause: there were other ways to free the slaves. I personally believe that slavery was on its way out anyway (see industrial revolution) and that freeing of the slaves was inevitable in America due to the inevitable rise of mass production. Wouldn't make sense if you were a company to have your goods available to all, not just 21-year-old WASP males? I'm pretty sure they bought slaves back from people in the UK, no? I do NOT agree with slavery, Jim Crowe laws, segregation, and other forms of racism, but did the lives of 1/5 Americans need to be lost?

Hope this doesn't break any TB rules by asking...
 
#36
It's like goths dressing in all black and white foundation. It is just a look. The make the band have a look to it. Of course if you didn't want to do the whole flag thing you could just not do anything. I think the American flag or even a Florida one may take away from the look of the band.
 
#37
DeluxeRed said:
Yeah, what kind of bass player in a punk band cares what anyone else thinks?

But, when someone beats the **** out of you over it, you can't say you weren't warned. What is a marketing tool to you evokes real emotion in other people. Heck, you'll be lucky if some Southern boy doesn't beat you up over being a poser by flying it. Something a real southern punk bassist might enjoy...

About a flag muffling the tone: 1) not if you're loud enough, and 2) what is this "tone" thing of which you speak? We are talking about a punk band. There's only one knob, and it says "Volume".
Click to expand...

Hey man, it's hardcore punk. If you aren't bloody by the end of the night, you're not doing it right. And my tone has two knobs: Volume and Boost :smug:.

And I don't think I have to worry about the real southern boys... My guitarist is one. He's a pretty big dude too.
 
#39
I'm a southerner who would not fly the Stars & Bars personally.... But isn't it the antithesis of punk to be all worried about offending people? I'm afraid this isn't the genre for you.
 
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