Confederate Flag over amps. Please no racism!

[Demonator]

Never really thought of the American Flag, but I don't know how comfortable I'd be draping that over my amp with people spitting and throwing beer around and possibly ruining the flag (it is punk rock).

I think this would be a good alternative:
Link Removed

as most people in the south know it's a southern flag, and most in the north don't know what it is.

The whole concept of the band is kind of the civil war and revolutionary war sense of rebellion against tyranny (once again, don't want this thread to turn sour, so I'll keep it at that). So I do respect the motif we have going. I like being abrasive and pushing the limits (being a punk) but I do not, however, want to be seen as offensive, intolerant, or ignorant.

Thats Bonnie Blue, the Confederate Flag of Florida, thats the one I hang. I was born there and plan to go back one day.

 

[nealw]

It's not really offending the audience. It's more like offending future gigs.

And therein lies my my other concern: speaking as a veteran musician who has scouted other bands for possible members, if I saw your band, I'd think "oh, that's those guys with all the rebel flags;" I doubt I would even notice that the bass amp wasn't flying one. Regardless of what you do personally, if that's the image of the the band-you are a part of that image. If you're comfortable with that-and it seems that you're not-have a blast! If not, I really think you should look elsewhere. You can't be a part of a group with a divisive symbol and not be associated with that symbol.

 

[azureblue]

you could look at it like you an actor. I mean, Freddy England doesn't always go 'round with knives on his hands, does he? Gene Simmons doesn't sleep in his Kiss make up. But then again, you may have a hard time with those lames who cannot figure out an act, vs. real life. Or those who can't distinguish between Confederate heritage vs. Southern Slavery. As evidenced here.

It's a tough one, especially since the Confederate Battle Flag is co-opted by racist groups, ala the swastika - once a symbol of peace, now a symbol of tyranny. There are other flags of the Confederacy, (check the Confederate History Museum in New Orleans) the Bonnie Blue Flag being one, several variations of the Confederate Battle flag, too, that you could use, but it looks to me like you're trying to tap dance your way out of a mine field. The Confederate Flag is still a touchy subject, and it does not mean the same thing to all Southerners. But back to topic.

You run the risk of being labeled as a racist, if you use the CF on stage. And back at the beginning of this year, in Naples, FL, a student was suspended for flying the flag, so a word to the wise.

But if the band wants to do this, then I suggest looking here, first:

http://www.florida-scv.org/projects/flag fund/catalog.htm

I was borne and raised in the deep south. I would not fly the CF or have it as bumper sticker. It engenders too much hate on both sides, and best left alone.

 

[powellmacaque]

you could look at it like you an actor. I mean, Freddy England doesn't always go 'round with knives on his hands, does he? Gene Simmons doesn't sleep in his Kiss make up. But then again, you may have a hard time with those lames who cannot figure out an act, vs. real life. Or those who can't distinguish between Confederate heritage vs. Southern Slavery. As evidenced here.

It's a tough one, especially since the Confederate Battle Flag is co-opted by racist groups, ala the swastika - once a symbol of peace, now a symbol of tyranny. There are other flags of the Confederacy, (check the Confederate History Museum in New Orleans) the Bonnie Blue Flag being one, several variations of the Confederate Battle flag, too, that you could use, but it looks to me like you're trying to tap dance your way out of a mine field. The Confederate Flag is still a touchy subject, and it does not mean the same thing to all Southerners. But back to topic.

You run the risk of being labeled as a racist, if you use the CF on stage. And back at the beginning of this year, in Naples, FL, a student was suspended for flying the flag, so a word to the wise.

But if the band wants to do this, then I suggest looking here, first:

http://www.florida-scv.org/projects/flag fund/catalog.htm

I was borne and raised in the deep south. I would not fly the CF or have it as bumper sticker. It engenders too much hate on both sides, and best left alone.

Right. See, if I even brought it up to the other guys I'm sure they'd even change the flags they had. We're NOT racist and in fact a lot of our songs have anti-racist lyrics. We want to be aggressive towards say, the "establishment" but not the working class, black, white, or otherwise.

 

[ausf]

Two thoughts as far away from the emotion that the flag generates that I can get:

1. If you keep having to explain that you're not racist, then there's a problem with the banner.

2. I always understood punk as being counter culture. Being in the South and displaying that flag isn't really counter anything. It'd be more fitting if you had a Union flag.

If you want to be punk, wear black hoods instead of white.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Two thoughts as far away from the emotion that the flag generates that I can get:

1. If you keep having to explain that you're not racist, then there's a problem with the banner.

2. I always understood punk as being counter culture. Being in the South and displaying that flag isn't really counter anything. It'd be more fitting if you had a Union flag.

If you want to be punk, wear black hoods instead of white.

Thread.

There is nothing rebellious about displaying a Confederate flag in the South! If you want to be punk, go against the establishment, don't buy into it!

 

[kenfxj]

You could always try this one:

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Personally I say just hang the American flag.
If that's not punk enough, I always felt this was one of the most punk things I ever saw: Johhny Ramone at the Ramones R&R HOF induction. (2:19 - 2:22)

 

[powellmacaque]

Thread.

There is nothing rebellious about displaying a Confederate flag in the South! If you want to be punk, go against the establishment, don't buy into it!

I don't know how many people are familiar with the band, but Dropkick Murphys are Bostonian and use various symbols to let EVERYBODY know it. We were using it more as a way of being proud of where we're from. Unfortunately for us, the Tampa Bay Rays don't have a storied history like the Boston Red Sox or the New York Yankees do.

We're all college students and, without getting too political, we like the confederate movement because we like the idea of standing up to an oppressive government. We all talk about politics and about guerilla warfare and the old American traditions that are lost now.

But I really like the idea of using Bonnie Blue. It has virtually no connotation associated with it, it's unique to Florida, it's still a flag of rebellion, and it could become "our" thing (and it kind of reminds me of the Zapitista flag used by Rage Against the Machine). You guys are right, waving the confederate flag in the south is not rebellious. Maybe we'll wave it in Boston .

 

[hdracer]

You are a POSER!! Any real punker wouldn't care what anyone thinks. Time to find a new band, & style of music.

 

[powellmacaque]

You are a POSER!! Any real punker wouldn't care what anyone thinks. Time to find a new band, & style of music.

I don't care 99% of the time, but to be viewed as intolerant is something I don't want to be.

And for what it's worth, real punks don't call each other posers. I did that in like 7th grade I think.

 

[heytrid]

I thought earlier (post seems to have disapeared or I i didn't look hard enough) you were not even southern but from new york.

Maybe hang a Rainbow flag? wouldn't that get people riled up and show how much you hate the oppressers.

I still go back to my original statement, it has been done before, and you guys want to do it to "be memorable" and have it be "your thing" maybe write songs and are not horrible and sound like every other southern punk rock band so "your thing" is not sucking.

 

[azureblue]

you guys found the minefield, for sure So what is "the establishment"? What does the Confed. Flag symbolize to the group? Are you more interested in FL history during the civil war? (OT: Slavery gave birth to Blues and Jazz - read up on New Orleans' Congo Square, and the MS Delta' field hollers, and the migration of freed slaves to New Orleans. Suggested reading- Louis Armstrong's New Orleans by Thomas Brothers). But just be aware that your attempts at enlightenment and standing up for the Civil War Era Southern poor, Black and White, can be very easily mis judged. I'd suggest pix or a slide show of Confederate era sharecroppers, small farmers, and free men of color, maybe the New Orleans Creoles, if you want to get way into it, rather than putting up flags.. Safer that way.

In support, though, you are onto something, because most history of the South doesn't talk much about the average semi -poor farmer (the Band's "The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" is as close to it as any), or the lives of free men of color. You might be better served with pix or a slide show of Civil War era poor Southern farmers, sharecroppers and Free men of color, than putting Confederate Flags on stage and causing a lot of ill will.

 

[hdracer]

I get asked a lot, what happened to Punk. This is it!!! Sorry son, you cannt be PC & Punk.

 

[powellmacaque]

I thought earlier (post seems to have disapeared or I i didn't look hard enough) you were not even southern but from new york.

Maybe hang a Rainbow flag? wouldn't that get people riled up and show how much you hate the oppressers.

I still go back to my original statement, it has been done before, and you guys want to do it to "be memorable" and have it be "your thing" maybe write songs and are not horrible and sound like every other southern punk rock band so "your thing" is not sucking.

Oh, we've got the not sucking part down .

And no I am not southern. But then again, a majority of Florida is not southern. But, I'm in Rome, if you catch my drift... And you know, the rainbow flag would be a pretty cool idea.

 

[powellmacaque]

I get asked a lot, what happened to Punk. This is it!!! Sorry son, you cannt be PC & Punk.

It's not a matter of PC, it's a matter of my personal image being misinterpreted. I'm the kid that's fighting the skins in the pit.

 

[hdracer]

For a Punk Band?????? Time to move on to a new style of music

 

[heytrid]

That is my point though, you are NOT southern, it does not mean ANYTHING to you or your heritage, fly a NY state flag, or a Ranger flag.

My point about the rainbow flag is (I may not be correct here so I apologize) but you are as homosexual as you are southern. (I apologize if you are in fact homosexual)

I would even understand this all if you family has fought in the war and you were proud of your heritage.. but this is all a farce, an act and it is pathetic.

HDracer is correct, you are an imposter, you are not southern, you never will be southern, just because you live in the south has nothing to do with legacy or history AS well as you should thing about the fact of YOUR own history, was you family in the north during the civil war? or did they immigrant later? if any o your family fought on the union side it is a real kick in the nuts don't you think.

So in my multirant post, you might as well fly this

 

[powellmacaque]

you guys found the minefield, for sure So what is "the establishment"? What does the Confed. Flag symbolize to the group? Are you more interested in FL history during the civil war? (OT: Slavery gave birth to Blues and Jazz - read up on New Orleans' Congo Square, and the MS Delta' field hollers, and the migration of freed slaves to New Orleans. Suggested reading- Louis Armstrong's New Orleans by Thomas Brothers). But just be aware that your attempts at enlightenment and standing up for the Civil War Era Southern poor, Black and White, can be very easily mis judged. I'd suggest pix or a slide show of Confederate era sharecroppers, small farmers, and free men of color, maybe the New Orleans Creoles, if you want to get way into it, rather than putting up flags.. Safer that way.

In support, though, you are onto something, because most history of the South doesn't talk much about the average semi -poor farmer (the Band's "The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" is as close to it as any), or the lives of free men of color. You might be better served with pix or a slide show of Civil War era poor Southern farmers, sharecroppers and Free men of color, than putting Confederate Flags on stage and causing a lot of ill will.

You're hitting the nail on the head. We play punk, but it's punk fusion if you will. We play blues, folk, we play "honky tonk", we play jazz, we play reggae, we play funk within a punk DIY ethic and style of delivery. Our instrumentation is the standard rhythm section + horns, banjo, slide guitar, mandolin, keys, even some rapping (eh, "toasting") Music of "the people", if you could excuse the cliche.

Our whole "message" is that the people need to rebel against huge governments that have forgotten that they are OUR subjects, not the other way around.

The pictures of the southern poor is a GREAT idea. Maybe not for live shows yet (we don't have THAT kind of budget) but definitely for album sleeves and etc. Even the northern factory workers, the New Orleans post-Katrina pictures. We want to show the government forgetting the people. THAT's the point of our music, not racism. The reason the Confederate Flag came up is to us that was the last time Americans fought a war the American way, against a big government and with their own shotguns.

 

[Marlat]

That is my point though, you are NOT southern, it does not mean ANYTHING to you or your heritage, fly a NY state flag, or a Ranger flag.

My point about the rainbow flag is (I may not be correct here so I apologize) but you are as homosexual as you are southern. (I apologize if you are in fact homosexual)

I would even understand this all if you family has fought in the war and you were proud of your heritage.. but this is all a farce, an act and it is pathetic.

HDracer is correct, you are an imposter, you are not southern, you never will be southern, just because you live in the south has nothing to do with legacy or history AS well as you should thing about the fact of YOUR own history, was you family in the north during the civil war? or did they immigrant later? if any o your family fought on the union side it is a real kick in the nuts don't you think.

So in my multirant post, you might as well fly this

So should I stop wearing DPM shorts since I have never served?

 

[powellmacaque]

That is my point though, you are NOT southern, it does not mean ANYTHING to you or your heritage, fly a NY state flag, or a Ranger flag.

My point about the rainbow flag is (I may not be correct here so I apologize) but you are as homosexual as you are southern. (I apologize if you are in fact homosexual)

I would even understand this all if you family has fought in the war and you were proud of your heritage.. but this is all a farce, an act and it is pathetic.

HDracer is correct, you are an imposter, you are not southern, you never will be southern, just because you live in the south has nothing to do with legacy or history AS well as you should thing about the fact of YOUR own history, was you family in the north during the civil war? or did they immigrant later? if any o your family fought on the union side it is a real kick in the nuts don't you think.

So in my multirant post, you might as well fly this

I really don't know which side my family fought on, but my last name is really common on my dad's side and I wouldn't be surprised if I had family that fought for both sides (my dad is Irish and Italian American). My mom's side is Polish and Czech that came over during the early 20th century.

I understand that I'm not southern, but I am Floridian, not a New Yorker. I was a little kid when I was in NY and I really have no memory or ties to NY at all. Like I said, I'm leaning towards the Bonnie Blue because it's Floridian. I am proud of my state (even though our politicians are stupid) and I don't think we're talked about enough outside the golf, beach, and retirement community. Everybody wants to go to NYC or Hollywood or San Francisco and even country guys want to go to TN or TX. Hell, there's Sweet Home Alabama (sung by Floridians). Where's the Florida anthems?

Were the Founding Fathers posers for flying the American Flag when they were born or had roots in England?