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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

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#221
JoeyZ said:
I'm going over old ground as I've already asked this but cannot seem to find any responses or even the original question.

Sooo, What say you in regards to Flats through a distortion pedal?
It'd be great to align myself with the drummer and according to most of you, flats seem to do that...BUT what happens to that fatter, Thumping signal when it's sent through something like...oh, i don't know...My Russian Big Muff? ;)
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I responded to your question briefly earlier, but unfortunately I didn't bring the fuzzbox to rehearsal yesterday so I can't give you an update based on my full-volume test just yet.
 
#222
Just to throw this into the mix, seeing as everyone seems to be one or the other predominantly, i've found that I split my sets equally between the two. Note thats merely NOT having one bass with flats and one with rounds, thats having 2 basses at every show an using each for specific songs, works wonders for me.

Flats, to MY ears, are a crime against the listener solo'ed, but theres certain songs my band plays where they are 100% perfect for that song and I wouldn't have it any other way. However, theres also songs where theres a lot of parts where it just drums/bass/vocals, and theres where it falls apart. Parts where the bass should be real in your face and nasty just fall flat (no pun intended!) and theres no power. Bring the band back in those things have IT though.

So no, I don't highly rate flats, they are kinda cool where and when I use them, but to the untrained ear though (which is 95% of your audience remember!) your bass sounds dull, lifeless and muddy. All IME of course...
 
#223
Sundogue said:
Interesting. I have older flats (TI's) that just seem to get smoother feeling over time. But I'm sure there is going to be individualized sensitivity to the feel of flats, as well as the pH balance of the individual affecting it. I live in a pretty dry area (in winter anyway) and my hands aren't all that greasy/oily...and I do play with clean hands and wipe my strings down too. I've never had too much problem with flats feeling sticky though.

Yes, using some kind of string cleaner/coating will help keep them feeling newer/smoother.
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Hi Sundogue, I live on the Island of Oahu, and most of my gigs are in Honolulu, or other locales around the Island that are essentially at sea level. Which means there is always salt in the air. That's why my nickel flats always have a slight patina on them. Even a guitar in its case and stored in a closet will have rust on the strings if not opened up occasionally and played, or wiped down.

For me, that's why I like using the Stringlife lube. Some of my bass buddies don't use a lube, but almost all of them carry a cloth of some sort, as I do, and we rub our strings frequently throughout the gig.

One of those "small price to pay" things for living in Paradise....;)
 
#225
Shaun_Bass0 said:
So no, I don't highly rate flats, they are kinda cool where and when I use them, but to the untrained ear though (which is 95% of your audience remember!) your bass sounds dull, lifeless and muddy. All IME of course...
Click to expand...

Your quote above in a sense doesn't make sense, and here's why I say that. You're right, 95% of the listening audience doesn't have a clue about good tone; in fact a band can be playing their favorite song badly, and their brain will be able to weed out the bad notes, and fill in the gaps with that favorite song that's burned into their heads! And then tell you between sets that you played that song killer!

Only you, and any musicians in the audience know if your tone sucks or not...
 
#226
sixway said:
Your quote above in a sense doesn't make sense, and here's why I say that. You're right, 95% of the listening audience doesn't have a clue about good tone; in fact a band can be playing their favorite song badly, and their brain will be able to weed out the bad notes, and fill in the gaps with that favorite song that's burned into their heads! And then tell you between sets that you played that song killer!

Only you, and any musicians in the audience know if your tone sucks or not...
Click to expand...
I don't think he or you are right about that, and I don't ever recommend underestimating your audience's knowledge. Today's music listeners are a lot more tuned into what sounds good than ever before. If they weren't, the home theater and car stereo markets wouldn't exist, and we would all play bass through a Pignose with a 6". They may not be able to tell you exactly why your mix isn't good, but trust me...most can tell a good mix from a bad one.

And Shaun, YOUR bass sounds dull, lifeless and muddy with flats. Mine sounds pretty darn good, especially when it's soloed. You did add IME, though, as you should have when expressing opinions about other people's gear and perceptions of it. One thing to say it about your own gear, another to say it about someone else's.

JoeyZ, I regularly use a VT pedal for distortion on my bass using flatwounds. The end result sounds like Mel Schacher on the first 5 Grand Funk Railroad albums...thick, creamy, and nasty!
 
#227
sixway said:
Hi Sundogue, I live on the Island of Oahu, and most of my gigs are in Honolulu, or other locales around the Island that are essentially at sea level. Which means there is always salt in the air. That's why my nickel flats always have a slight patina on them. Even a guitar in its case and stored in a closet will have rust on the strings if not opened up occasionally and played, or wiped down.

For me, that's why I like using the Stringlife lube. Some of my bass buddies don't use a lube, but almost all of them carry a cloth of some sort, as I do, and we rub our strings frequently throughout the gig.

One of those "small price to pay" things for living in Paradise....;)
Click to expand...

Just to show how unselfish I am, I'd be willing to trade my drier air for your moister air, just so you don't have to deal with string problems!

I'd be willing to sacrifice my strings for you...I care that much!

I just need to know your address, so I can start shipping my house furnishings over there...and to make room for your stuff here. You'll be glad never having to worry about your strings again.
 
#228
Shaun_Bass0 said:
Just to throw this into the mix, seeing as everyone seems to be one or the other predominantly, i've found that I split my sets equally between the two. Note thats merely NOT having one bass with flats and one with rounds, thats having 2 basses at every show an using each for specific songs, works wonders for me.

Flats, to MY ears, are a crime against the listener solo'ed, but theres certain songs my band plays where they are 100% perfect for that song and I wouldn't have it any other way. However, theres also songs where theres a lot of parts where it just drums/bass/vocals, and theres where it falls apart. Parts where the bass should be real in your face and nasty just fall flat (no pun intended!) and theres no power. Bring the band back in those things have IT though.

So no, I don't highly rate flats, they are kinda cool where and when I use them, but to the untrained ear though (which is 95% of your audience remember!) your bass sounds dull, lifeless and muddy. All IME of course...
Click to expand...

FWIW, I think solos are a crime against bass playing. But that's me. Come to think of it, I don't care for guitar solos either. I like tasty little lines that fit the song, but solos are just musical masturbation. One doesn't need partners for that.

I think anyone who needs to use rounds should use rounds. It would be stupid to do otherwise. Flats aren't for everyone, but they are for those who want things tighter and want their bass to be more bass than guitar. Not everyone wants that, and some only want it sometimes. It's all cool.
 
#229
Sundogue said:
Just to show how unselfish I am, I'd be willing to trade my drier air for your moister air, just so you don't have to deal with string problems!

I'd be willing to sacrifice my strings for you...I care that much!

I just need to know your address, so I can start shipping my house furnishings over there...and to make room for your stuff here. You'll be glad never having to worry about your strings again.
Click to expand...


Hmmmmmm.... I'm considering..... NOT!:smug:
 
#230
Ok,

Obviously I wasn't clear enough, everything I posted was based on my own ears, personal preferences and experience. Sorry I didn't wanna sound like I was ripping on anybodies gear....far from it, I just thought I could contribute to the discussion from the viewpoint of having very recently found an awesome, albeit very limited (IMO!!!), place for them in my playing.

Cheers guys,
 
#231
JimmyM said:
I don't think he or you are right about that, and I don't ever recommend underestimating your audience's knowledge. Today's music listeners are a lot more tuned into what sounds good than ever before. If they weren't, the home theater and car stereo markets wouldn't exist, and we would all play bass through a Pignose with a 6". They may not be able to tell you exactly why your mix isn't good, but trust me...most can tell a good mix from a bad one.

And Shaun, YOUR bass sounds dull, lifeless and muddy with flats. Mine sounds pretty darn good, especially when it's soloed. You did add IME, though, as you should have when expressing opinions about other people's gear and perceptions of it. One thing to say it about your own gear, another to say it about someone else's.

JoeyZ, I regularly use a VT pedal for distortion on my bass using flatwounds. The end result sounds like Mel Schacher on the first 5 Grand Funk Railroad albums...thick, creamy, and nasty!
Click to expand...

You're right about that - I was being a tad facetious when I wrote that. I don't like to under-estimate the listening audience either, and that's why I am always trying to put out the best tone I can, and why just like all of us, I've spent a small fortune investing in quality gear in search of great tone.

I play my flats in a variety of bands and situations, and feel that I can get any tone I want. I don't have to play with distortion or heavy grunge type sounds, so that makes it easier for me to play my flat loaded bass exclusively.

So apologies for a generalized statement... and, your line about the 6" Pignose made me laugh. Although for me, I wouldn't play anything smaller than my Hog 30!
:cool:
 
#233
Shaun_Bass0 said:
Ok,

Obviously I wasn't clear enough, everything I posted was based on my own ears, personal preferences and experience. Sorry I didn't wanna sound like I was ripping on anybodies gear....far from it, I just thought I could contribute to the discussion from the viewpoint of having very recently found an awesome, albeit very limited (IMO!!!), place for them in my playing.

Cheers guys,
Click to expand...

At least you've opened the door to the idea!
:p
 
#234
Shaun_Bass0 said:
Ok,

Obviously I wasn't clear enough, everything I posted was based on my own ears, personal preferences and experience. Sorry I didn't wanna sound like I was ripping on anybodies gear....far from it, I just thought I could contribute to the discussion from the viewpoint of having very recently found an awesome, albeit very limited (IMO!!!), place for them in my playing.

Cheers guys,
Click to expand...

Hey rip away! I certainly don't have a problem doing it myself (which is obvious). I've got a thick skin though.

And I appreciate your contribution, wrong as it was. jk :D

I understand how flats don't fit every situation. For 30 years they never seemed to fit my situation either. But I was always more concerned with MY sound, not the band's sound. I'm not saying that those who play rounds are only concerned with their sound. They are just concerned more with their own sound. Selfishness has it's place. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. I'm just saying... :D
 
#235
Many thanks to monsterthompson, Sundogue, and JimmyM! You guys are cool!
I'll be purchasing a set of flats for my jazz soon, but first and as always. What brand of flats would one suggest to another taking their first foray into that world?
I need something with low tension to keep the action down, but not so low that it's buzzing on the frets.
 
#236
I didn't quote, but there was a comment on the dullness of flats when solo'd. I'd just like to bring our attention briefly to the bass obligato on "Reach Out" by the fabulous Ojays. I think it was played by James Jamerson- but I'm happy to be proven wrong there.

That bass bit is full of understated anticipation, tension, and nicely focused direction. Not dull or lifeless, and I'm as ready as not to bet it was done on a P-Bass with flats. Flats, anyway!

It's all about the player, this concept of what tool is best.
 
#237
JoeyZ said:
Many thanks to monsterthompson, Sundogue, and JimmyM! You guys are cool!
I'll be purchasing a set of flats for my jazz soon, but first and as always. What brand of flats would one suggest to another taking their first foray into that world?
I need something with low tension to keep the action down, but not so low that it's buzzing on the frets.
Click to expand...

Well, the La Bella Deep Talkin' are the only ones I have tried. From what I gather, these are pretty middle-of-the-road for flat tension. I've read the James Jamerson are high tension cables and the TI strings are noodles. It sounds like the Chromes might be middle of the road as well.

I'd also consider that higher tension would probably get you lower buzz-free action from the angle that the higher tension would reduce the range of movement of the string when you pluck it.

I'd say based on the cost factor, it seems like the TI might not be the best place to start. Chromes seem to be more reasonable.

Any way you slice it, it is time to pull a space-monkey and go where no man has gone before.
 
#238
Ya, now that these Chromes are finally settling down, I'm starting to dig them. You can probably get the most choices for string gauge with Chromes, too. Even found a set that went 40-95. They're not real high tension, but they're enough tension where they're not all floppity. Soundwise, I prefer Fenders and LaBellas because they go really really dead, but the Chromes are probably the best balance of deadness and low tension that I've tried.
 
#239
JimmyM said:
Ya, now that these Chromes are finally settling down, I'm starting to dig them. You can probably get the most choices for string gauge with Chromes, too. Even found a set that went 40-95. They're not real high tension, but they're enough tension where they're not all floppity. Soundwise, I prefer Fenders and LaBellas because they go really really dead, but the Chromes are probably the best balance of deadness and low tension that I've tried.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm finding that as the Chromes settle they seem to 'bloom' into a more full sounding string. Like they are becoming more balanced as they age. The mids become less harsh and the lows come out more.

They still don't really have that deep traditional thump, but it is a good solid, tight low end flat sound.
 
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