Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

[smeet]

I find that Chromes at least are much less boomy *IN PRACTICE* than roundwound strings. There are a few reasons for this IMO:

1) if you want a certain amount of bass response in your sound, boosting via eq risks boominess because of the hump in eq, and roundwounds need more boosting in the low end. Flatwounds can get that low end with a relatively flat eq.

2) Boom is perceived in the sustain portion of a note, rather than the attack. The shorter sustain of flats means that the note gets out of the way sooner, so the perceived boom is less even if there is a lot of low end.

3) Compared to rounds, flats tend to emphasize the fundamental more than the harmonics.

 

[MarkusBass]

I have Chromes on my Decade and love them! Anyone have a sound clip of Chromes on a J bass?

 

[smeet]

I don't know of any secret. All I know is I can achieve the tone I want better with Chromes on my Sadowsky through my DB750 than anything else I have tried. I have not played this setup in extremely echoey rooms.

I usually play about 80%-90% on the bridge pickup, so it's a pretty different sound than a P-bass.

Maybe you are getting fooled by the sound close to your amp as opposed to the FOH sound? Or maybe I am...

 

[MarkusBass]

I don't know how many of you have played in big rooms that echo like mad. I find in these rooms the note is heard better with roundwounds. I have found using flats in these type of rooms turns my sound to mud. Is there a secret here ?

Probably depends on the flats used. I can't see TI's sounding muddy...probably not Chromes either, but I'm no expert.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't know how many of you have played in big rooms that echo like mad. I find in these rooms the note is heard better with roundwounds. I have found using flats in these type of rooms turns my sound to mud. Is there a secret here ?

Quite a few rooms I play in are boomy...thus one of the reasons I switched to flats. With a stronger fundamental, less harmonics and a quicker decay, flats control boominess better than rounds.

Also, with flats, I can cut the 'boomy' frequency more with my EQ and still keep a solid, tight low end going. With rounds, unless I boost my low-mids more (which contributes to boominess), the rounds sound weaker in comparison to flats.

Specifically, Chromes having stronger mids, which allow me to cut the boomy frequencies more and still have a solid low end.

 

[Sundogue]

I've tried all the EQ'ing and nothing has worked for me when using flats in this envornment. Sure with rounds I lose a bit of the bottom ,but at least the note is there. I have come to realize why so many pro's use rounds live. I have tried the Chromes and do find them bright for a roundwound ,but still too boomy in big rooms.

Because pros aren't like an ignorant amateur like me. I'm just not as intelligent, experienced, or talented as they are.

They say ignorance is bliss. That must explain why I like them and the pros don't. Unlike the pros, I'm just a working bass player that gigs on a regular basis and makes money from it. I'm certainly no big name bass god where people come to bow down before me and yearn to be just like me when they grow up.

 

[rumblethump]

Full Moon

 

[Sundogue]

WOW ! I too am a gigging bass player who makes money playing,what does that have to with anything ? I didn't know you would become so offended by my post. I just have never been able to get a good sound in a big room with flats or get a gig by calling a guitar player a "guitard". I am certainly not a big time pro, just a local bass player in Los Angeles ,California.

Hmm...maybe it was your comment that you've come to realize why so many pros use rounds live instead of flats like I'm some dumb schmuck who just doesn't get it like the 'pros' do. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but it sounded condescending. If not, cool, don't worry about it.

My reference to "guitards" is really addressed to those guys who present a sonic challenge to bass players (and unfortunately they don't know who they are even if you called them that to their face). I live in an area where there isn't much studio work, where guitarists are a dime a dozen and there are not many bass players. I only play with the ones I really wouldn't call that anyway...but having two guitarists in my rock band still presents sonic challenges (so I still call them "guitards" in my posts to clarify my points).

I've had issued with getting a good sound in big rooms that are boomy. But that was back when I was too consumed with obtaining "my" perfect tone. I've found flats to be the answer for me in a lot of ways. One of which was helping remove my bass from that sonic wall the "guitards" present, so that I neither have to be as loud as I was, nor do I need to worry that all of the piano-like brightness is missing in the mix, because with flats it isn't an issue any longer. I hear my bass clearer strung with flats because it's the only instrument that sounds like it now. When I played with rounds, it's sound was more that of a lower tuned guitar...and thus the battle to "cut through the mix"...which inevitably led to volume wars and 'boomy' troubles.

Flats solved so many issues for me as a bass player.

 

[mulambo]

Flats solved so many issues for me as a bass player.

Man, these few words says so much!!!

 

[lomo]

Currently I have a 4 string set of TI Jazz Flats on my 5 string Washburn (with an unknown roundwound for the low B). The TI's are over three years old but still very bright.

However, I'm gonna slap a 5 string set of D'Addario Chromes on very soon. I'm still in the very early stages of flatwound selections and the Chromes seem like the best first choice given other's opinions.

I love flats, but I like some clanky brightness to them. I'm not into the Jamerson tone...I want some edge to them.

I've used and loved D'Ad Chromes for quite a while and just tried the TI jazz flats. I prefer the tone of the Chromes by a hair but the feel of the TIs is amazing and I'm not going back. The Chromes are much higher tension and feel like piano cables in comparison.

 

[Sundogue]

I've used and loved D'Ad Chromes for quite a while and just tried the TI jazz flats. I prefer the tone of the Chromes by a hair but the feel of the TIs is amazing and I'm not going back. The Chromes are much higher tension and feel like piano cables in comparison.

Yeah, I'm currently playing with Chromes, but I still have the TI's. I don't have another gig until next weekend, so I'll reserve judgment on the Chromes until after that. I may go back to the TI's, but I kind of prefer the tighter feeling Chromes. Soundwise I like both for different reasons.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't know the caliber of the guitar players you play with, but I play with a professional group of players and everybody knows how to stay in their "sonic space". Maybe that's the difference ?

After 30 years of playing in bands and using roundwounds, I discovered that flatwounds work better for me. All this time I thought it was because I played in loud, kick-ass hard rock bands and the guitar players were just doing what guitars in hard rock are supposed to do. Now I come to find out it's not my strings; it was just because I was playing with a bunch of unprofessional guitar players!

Thanks p-bass! Now I just need to find some pros to play with so I can go back to using rounds. Learn something new every day on talkbass!

 

[Count Bassie]

You guys are getting a little touchy.

I'm going to post later about the Chromes I stuck on my Smith Burner last night. I note that I did have to tweak the truss rod a 1/4 turn to pull out the bow that developed right away. I have the rounds I took off in the case...

 

[Sundogue]

You guys are getting a little touchy.

I'm going to post later about the Chromes I stuck on my Smith Burner last night. I note that I did have to tweak the truss rod a 1/4 turn to pull out the bow that developed right away. I have the rounds I took off in the case...

A little?

I had to tweak my truss rod after putting on the Chromes too. Yes, let us know how they sound!

 

[One Drop]

After 30 years of playing in bands and using roundwounds, I discovered that flatwounds work better for me. All this time I thought it was because I played in loud, kick-ass hard rock bands and the guitar players were just doing what guitars in hard rock are supposed to do. Now I come to find out it's not my strings; it was just because I was playing with a bunch of unprofessional guitar players!

Thanks p-bass! Now I just need to find some pros to play with so I can go back to using rounds. Learn something new every day on talkbass!

Wow, why does this have to turn into a fight? What works for you works for you and what works for others works for others. You made some wonderful points but you seem unhappy unless you get total agreement Please accept others' opinions as you want us to accept yours.

I love flats but they are not in any way the only way to create a tight, solid and deep rhythm section, whether you be a pro or a schmoe. That's my experience and it's the only one that matters to me.

 

[Count Bassie]

Will dew. I hope they are very cool, as I miss the lower tension of the rounds! My bends aren't quite as impressive as they usually are!! Not!!

More self-deprecation at eleven.

 

[Sundogue]

Wow, why does this have to turn into a fight? What works for you works for you and what works for others works for others. You made some wonderful points but you seem unhappy unless you get total agreement Please accept others' opinions as you want us to accept yours.

I love flats but they are not in any way the only way to create a tight, solid and deep rhythm section, whether you be a pro or a schmoe. That's my experience and it's the only one that matters to me.

It doesn't and hasn't really. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me...at all. I'm just not fond of insults. My last response was just tongue-in-cheek.

And I never said flats were the only way to accomplish anything. I only stated what flats were better at doing...just as rounds are better at doing something else...and it isn't just my opinion, it is inherent in their respective designs. Some people feel rounds do it all and flats are only good for one thing. They are entitled to their opinion, but getting their point across by insulting me, I'm not going to tolerate.

 

[pc]

After 30 years of playing in bands and using roundwounds, I discovered that flatwounds work better for me. All this time I thought it was because I played in loud, kick-ass hard rock bands and the guitar players were just doing what guitars in hard rock are supposed to do. Now I come to find out it's not my strings; it was just because I was playing with a bunch of unprofessional guitar players!

Thanks p-bass! Now I just need to find some pros to play with so I can go back to using rounds. Learn something new every day on talkbass!

I'm having the same problem. After years playing bass-friendly songs (Joss Stone, Nelly Furtado, Bill Withers), I came up in a band with two former hardcore / grind "guitards". One of them have no idea how does his guitar sound clean

We are playing a faster 70's hard rock and I'm having problems to be heard. I'm using hi-beams now, but I ordered a set of GHS precision flats to test them in this new "environment".

I have experience with flats. My first "playable" bass (a Rick copy) came with unknown flats on it. I also had a fretless Squier Jazz and a SX Precision strung with TI's. So it won't be an unknown experience.

I choose the GHS over the TI's because I'm looking for a thumpier tone. I also play stantards with a friend of mine in a classical guitar / bass setup, so they will give me a more upright-ish tone.

 

[Sundogue]

I'm having the same problem. After years playing bass-friendly songs (Joss Stone, Nelly Furtado, Bill Withers), I came up in a band with two former hardcore / grind "guitards". One of them have no idea how does his guitar sound clean

We are playing a faster 70's hard rock and I'm having problems to be heard. I'm using hi-beams now, but I ordered a set of GHS precision flats to test them in this new "environment".

I have experience with flats. My first "playable" bass (a Rick copy) came with unknown flats on it. I also had a fretless Squier Jazz and a SX Precision strung with TI's. So it won't be an unknown experience.

I choose the GHS over the TI's because I'm looking for a thumpier tone. I also play stantards with a friend of mine in a classical guitar / bass setup, so they will give me a more upright-ish tone.

Well...(and of course this is IMO, IMHO and all that other disclaimer stuff ), unless someone is playing with a guitarist(s) copping that Chet Atkins clean sound, there is going to be some blending of sounds between bass and guitar. It's inevitable as roundwounds are going to give a bass a sound that is more guitar-like (which can be appropriate and even desired).

When you combine distorted guitar (as in rock music) with a bass strung with roundwounds, there is just going to be some sonic space shared. And it has nothing at all to do with volume. It has to do with tone. A distorted power chord on guitar along with a punchy roundwound bass line is going to cause some sonic blending. The sounds blend, and that isn't a bad thing, but it does explain why so many rock bass players have a problem "cutting through the mix". How can your bass be clearly heard as your bass when it sounds like the guitars? And that isn't just my opinion...just look at all the posts by bass players here wanting help doing just that.

Flats remove quite a bit of that "guitar" sound from the bass. That alone can provide some distinction between the sounds of the bass and guitar. Some don't want that and I understand that all too well, having played in rock bands for 30 years using roundwound strings. I still love that roundwound tone however.

But, I've come to the conclusion that what I want in "my" tone isn't necessarily best for my band's overall sound. Being heard among the guitars isn't all about volume, as there are numerous posts advising boosting the mids to get the bass to be heard. Flats allow me to be heard in a way I didn't consider before as I had always been a diehard roundwound player and had great disdain for flatwound strings. I still do not really care for the sound of flats when I play by myself, and honestly there are times even playing live that I still fall into that "Where is MY tone?" selfishness (on my part...I'm not saying that about anyone else). But then I realize that the band sounds better because the rhythm section sounds tighter (by that I don't mean we are playing any tighter...I mean how it 'sounds' tighter...like the drums and bass are compressed into one instrument). I know many do not like that sound (or lack of sound in their opinion). But I'm standing out more as bass player by not standing out, if that makes any sense. It's not a popular concept for modern bass players.

As a long time roundwound user, it really requires me to lose my ego for me to accept how I sound now. I've spent my entire career as a bass player trying to improve "MY" tone. Now I don't care and for some odd reason I hear myself better than I ever have. Strange...very strange.

Good luck with your experiment.




[MY LAST DISCLAIMER: I really wish everyone would understand that EVERYTHING I write is MY opinion only (even if it comes across as me thinking I'm always right) and I shouldn't have to add a disclaimer to every single point I express. It should be obvious that whatever I say can only be from my point of view. Of course that's just my opinion. ]

 

[fourfinger]

Alright, I have been seduced by your original post, Sundogue, as well as the Lakland sound clips link, and all the insightful comments to be found in this thread.

I plunked around for literally about thrirty seconds on flatwounds when I was just learning, and immediately ran screaming in terror from the dull tone. I've played only bright-toned roundwounds (generally Elixir) for 25 years since then, never seeing any reason to try flats on my basses before now.

I've played in local bands -- mostly loud, mostly rock, but also fusion, blues, and country. Sometimes with PA support, sometimes without. I have been generally satisfied with my sound, but Sundogue's original post rings true.

Kept reading, and settled on Chromes as the ones to try.

I called the local mom-and-pop music store -- sorry, no flats at all.

So I found an ebay deal from an out-of-state music store. Less than fifty dollars for two sets of Chromes, .50 - .105. They are on the way! I can't wait to try them.