I would look at TI Jazz Flats. They have the lowest tension for flats that I am aware of. If you get a set of Chromes 45-100 they are pretty good and are in-line with the tension of many rounds in the 45-105 guage.
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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...
- Thread starter Sundogue
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I would look at TI Jazz Flats. They have the lowest tension for flats that I am aware of. If you get a set of Chromes 45-100 they are pretty good and are in-line with the tension of many rounds in the 45-105 guage.
Honestly, I never knew before TB that there even was a difference in tension among brands/types of strings. I also assumed that nobody played flats for anything other than jazz, bluegrass, or folk. Boy, was I wrong! Now I play flats for everything except the occasional snap/pop or pick routine. To my ears, Chromes sing! They sound rich, expressive, and thumpy, and with much less string noise! I love the way they sound.
I have a question: Most flats last a really long time compared to rounds. So how do the string manufacturers and retailers make any money on them?
It isn't that flats last a really long time, it's that rounds suck and need to be replaced much too often. String manufacturers make their money off flatwounds too. And not everyone that plays flats keeps them on forever.
Look at it this way, roundwound players are basically subsidizing us using flats. Which is why they come on here and get so angry about us using flats and try to get us to switch back,
A distinction without a difference, if you ask me. Go listen to some Marcus Miller or Rush or Mike Mills of R.E.M. and tell us all again how lousy roundwounds are.
That said, I absolutely love my Chromes. Godly. A joy to play.
I disagree with the above. I had a set of Chromes in the lightest gauge with the .90 E string, and I found them to have a stiffness that even medium guage rounds don't have. The TENSION may be similar, the FLEXIBLITY is different, much stiffer. Flats will always be less flexible than rounds, even if the tension is lighter. If you have ever held baling wire you will know what I mean.
TI Flats on the other hand are more flexible than any string I have ever played due to a silk wrap around a round core. You can bend them up a half step on the first fret! Using Ti flats mostly for the last year has forced me to start plucking much closer to the bridge, which produces a really great tone with these strings. Many find them too flexible but I have learned to love them. They sound amazing for most styles of music.
A distinction without a difference, if you ask me. Go listen to some Marcus Miller or Rush or Mike Mills of R.E.M. and tell us all again how lousy roundwounds are.
Well, I am a huge Mike Mills fan and have been for 20 years and enjoy all those that you mentioned...BUT. The OP was posting about LIVE performance where as your post is more about recorded music. This is thread is about how flats help one find their sonic real estate LIVE, not recorded. In every case that you mentioned, there are sparse arrangements, where the bass assumed a very melodic role, and needs to sound more guitar like.
In a 5-6 piece live rock band the OP has suggested you will cut through better with flats.
I don't see where I specified live vs. recorded music, but it's neither here nor there. Yes, flats do sit better in the typical mix than rounds. That doesn't mean rounds "suck," though. Moreover, the benefits of flats are not confined to live performance, IMO.
A distinction without a difference, if you ask me. Go listen to some Marcus Miller or Rush or Mike Mills of R.E.M. and tell us all again how lousy roundwounds are.
Well, yeah sure if you only read my last post and not the 536 previous ones, then I can see how you wouldn't know I was only joking.
Rounds don't suck. They blow. Yet another distinction without a difference.
I've heard all of the bass players you mentioned and unless they are playing a solo spot, or the bass is more accentuated than other instruments that roundwound zing is missing anyway for the most part. I can clearly hear the roundwound tone on any song of those you mentioned...until the rest of the band kicks in.
And I've played roundwounds for 30+ years. And I now think roundwounds suck...and blow. But that's me. I put on rounds now and I hate them. If I ever get to be Geddy Lee or Chris Squire string choice is going to be the last thing on my mind. Hey, you never know...with all this Quantum Physics experimentation we may be able to switch places with people someday. Until then I'm playing flats.
My online irony detector must not be calibrated correctly.Well, yeah sure if you only read my last post and not the 536 previous ones, then I can see how you wouldn't know I was only joking.
My online irony detector must not be calibrated correctly.
No problem. I recently upgraded my irony creator and most have a hard time with my posts.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
Holy crap! Four gigs this past week - Tuesday in an outdoor ampitheater, Wednesday at an outdoor deck of a shore bar, Thursday in a casino, and yesterday outdoors in a small pub. Crowds of about 600 to 60. The Chromes spoke with authority, clarity, and a real fullness that I never got from rounds, unless they were old!
These are staying on. I'm using a MarkBass SD 800 coupled with a Dr. Bass (yeah, I know, I know) 2460, and the combination of a very modern rig with a passive Jazz with flats is giving me the best of both worlds. I love it!
These are staying on. I'm using a MarkBass SD 800 coupled with a Dr. Bass (yeah, I know, I know) 2460, and the combination of a very modern rig with a passive Jazz with flats is giving me the best of both worlds. I love it!
That pretty much sums up Chromes. In this whole flatwound debate, when round lovers are critical of flats as a whole and make statements like "flats just sound dead" I do believe they haven't tried enough flatwounds to know the distinction even between different flats, much less flats and rounds.
With regards to old rounds...the very thing that rounds excel at is what prevents them from doing what flats excel at. Not a bad thing, but decidedly different. It makes a huge difference what one's sonic goals are.
My switch to flatwounds was to help me reach my goal of having more authority over the sound of the bass and giving it a unique voice in the band. A voice that fits within the rhythm section that does not need to cut through the guitar sound but rather be complimentary to them. With rounds my bass only sounded like a deeper guitar and to hear it well required changes to my rig that simply took me too far out of the realm I wanted my bass to live in with the drums.
I can see why many would prefer rounds because their tonal goals are not to be limited to the rhythm section. That is my goal and the Chromes give my bass it's own unique voice but still keeps it in the rhythm section in a way that rounds and even other flats don't.
Those TI flatwounds sounded like what I should try as my first experiment with non-factory strings until I just read a bunch of reviews that describe them as being very low tension and "like spaghetti noodles". I'm afraid I'll be buzzing all over the place if I try such soft strings on a five string. I shudder at what that B string would be like. Is there any such thing a flexible flatwound that isn't low tension?
I don't own a fretless bass, but I imagine a low-tension string would allow for lots of bending!
Actually, as having used TI Flats on a fiver for several years now, I can say that the TI flat B string is about the most musical and useful b string I have come across. First of all, unlike the TI E and A string, which are lower guage than normal, the B string is .136. It is huge! It is NOT floppy or loose at all, but feels like a .125 b string from a set of good rounds. It has the absolutely perfect amount of sustain, thump and clarity for everything I have used it for. I use the B string ALOT, mostly above the 5th fret. For me it is about playing in position and not so much about low C's. This B string is excellent for that purpose, and isn't much louder or softer than the rest of the set but is quite well balanced. I have also experimented with the TI set but with the Chrome B string. I noticed virtually no difference in Tone or playability even though the chrome is .125-also an excellent B string. Surpisingly, the chrome B blended very well with the TI's. I put the TI B string back on just so everything would match, and because darn it, that TI B costs $25!
Everything that TI does, is to achieve balance, so one string isn't way louder or softer than the next. What you will find with TI flats, is that you no longer have to worry about upper fret passages disappearing, since the G and D string are so well balanced against the E and A. That is the reason for the unusual gauges.
Your left hand will love the hell out of the TI's, and your right hand will get used it, you just have to learn to play closer to the bridge. I will admit that when I put chromes on my Sadowsky, I liked the right hand feel alot better. However, I didn't like the way the chromes responded above the 12th fret, a little too thumpy for MY taste. The TI's sustain a little more and just sound so natural. They don't have the same attitude that chromes do, but I always return to them when I try something else.
There are Many Many positive reviews about TI flats, don't be turned off by one review. From my talkbass experience, the top three flats seems to be:
Chromes, TI Flats, and Labellas. They are VERY different and each will appeal to different types of players.
Just put a set of Chromes 50-105 on my spector yesterday... All i can say is
Dude, just wait until they're really broken in. If you're jumping for joy now you'll be cart wheeling down main street in your skivies once you've got some hours on them. It took mine about three months.
We had some friends in town last weekend who had moved away and hadn't seen up play in a couple of years. The husband was blown away at how good we sounded. He said he could hear everybody's playing and it didn't sound like anybody was fighting to be heard. I just smiled and said thanks. My Chromes flipping rock!
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