I really dig Water's bass on all of the earlier Pink Floyd albums. Way back then I knew that was the sound I wanted to emulate. So why did it take me 30 years to get it? Hmmm...too many drugs probably.
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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...
- Thread starter Sundogue
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I really dig Water's bass on all of the earlier Pink Floyd albums. Way back then I knew that was the sound I wanted to emulate. So why did it take me 30 years to get it? Hmmm...too many drugs probably.
They have a lot of presence that would fit well for somebody wanting an aggressive sound with flats. They are bright, but a "growly hi-mid bright", not a Chromes "clanky, glassy bright".
My only beef with them is the B is not as tight or as big sounding as I would like, but I bought the light gauge set with the .125B. I might see if I can get the .130B and see if that helps.
Yikes! Just went to Sadowsky.com and noticed a 4 string set of flats is $42... Probably have to stick with TI's until some gigs bring in some dough
Ok guys, I think I really like the GHS precision flats. Probably gonna stay on my main bass.
I'll put chromes on my squier P bass. Tried it before and it sounds good.
I'll put chromes on my squier P bass. Tried it before and it sounds good.
i play with flatwounds on my bc rich beast. only started using them because they were the steve harris signatures, and ive used many different types and never went back. though i still use rounds on my schecter stilletto elite.
I really dig Water's bass on all of the earlier Pink Floyd albums. Way back then I knew that was the sound I wanted to emulate. So why did it take me 30 years to get it? Hmmm...too many drugs probably.
He only took enough drugs to explore beyond the 3 minute pop song . Other than being a stoner and a chain smoker he wasnt too bad
. Rogers equipment from back then is really hard to find nowadays. On the albums themselves his playing isnt too awesome, its on the live bootlegs that you hear the whole enchilada. Right in your face all day, even through the quieter passages.
He only took enough drugs to explore beyond the 3 minute pop song . Other than being a stoner and a chain smoker he wasnt too bad
I think his playing is tremendous. It does what the bass is supposed to do...drive the song where it needs to go and support the other instruments.
Waters bass lines aren't flashy...they are tasteful and absolute perfection for the music. And the tone is killer.
My love affair with the TIs is not over after all.
I played a wedding reception last night with my soul band, using the Sadowskys that I re-strung on my bass. Now I remember why I switched to the TIs. For the first hour of the set, I was struggling to get through the mix. I was doing some serious eq-ing to get that big, low-mid presence that the TIs have so I could hear myself clearly.
When we got to break for the dinner and cake cutting, I busted the old TIs out of my bag, and quickly re-strung my bass and set it up. For he rest of the night, I was back in business. I reset my amp's eq flat, and I had a huge presence in the mix. My hands/wrists were a lot happier too.
I still love the Sadowskys, but the TIs are really magical to me.
I played a wedding reception last night with my soul band, using the Sadowskys that I re-strung on my bass. Now I remember why I switched to the TIs. For the first hour of the set, I was struggling to get through the mix. I was doing some serious eq-ing to get that big, low-mid presence that the TIs have so I could hear myself clearly.
When we got to break for the dinner and cake cutting, I busted the old TIs out of my bag, and quickly re-strung my bass and set it up. For he rest of the night, I was back in business. I reset my amp's eq flat, and I had a huge presence in the mix. My hands/wrists were a lot happier too.
I still love the Sadowskys, but the TIs are really magical to me.
Thanks to this thread I am flatter for life!!
Felt that way about Chromes. Went to TI's, never looked back. [more detailed notes than Chromes, at least for me, on my Geddy Lee.]
Well, the gig is where it counts. Of course, what would be really helpful, would be if we could hear our rigs from the audience standpoint. I sat in the audience while someone played my Sadowsky with TI's on it, and I was really blown away how great it sounded. For some reason he only used the super bright bridge pickup only, which I don't like one stage, but it sounded good in the crowd. The guy playing it also had a hofner that was strung with chromes that sounded really amazing in the audience.
Flats definitely give a fundamental presence that rounds just don't, even worn rounds, that puts a smile on my face when I hear it. I am reassured cap'n, that TI's are where I need to stay after reading the above post. So many things that sound awesome in practice just don't cut it at the gig. If TI's are good enough for Pino's #1 P bass, they are good enough for me.
After almost 1500 posts and over 82,000 views for this thread alone and all the new threads that have been posted about flatwound strings, it appears that flats are enjoying a resurgence among bass players.
However I still read threads where roundwound lovers that have tried flats and went back to rounds, still have misconceptions about flats. Obviously if your tone and style lends itself to the sound of rounds then they are the string for you. If you want more versatility in your sound then again rounds may be the string for you.
But...I see a lot of brief trials of flats resulting in declarations that flats are missing something. That something is the one thing round players are looking for...that typical bright roundwound zing. All I can say to that is...Well, duh! What do you expect? Do you really expect flats to have all they offer AND that zingy brightness?
Look, just like bass speakers that excel at going down low cannot also excel at the high end very well, flats offer one thing and rounds excel at something else.
To say that rounds do everything as well as flats, plus have that bright top end is just plain ignorant.
Flats have a stronger fundamental. The low end and lo-mids of flats have more punch and clarity. The low end of the bass has more definition with flats. Typically notes above the 12th fret have more punch and authority with flats. Because flats excel at these things, flats are the preferred string for those that are looking for those qualities in a string. However, because that is where flats excel, they give up some on the high end (just like the bass speaker analogy).
Rounds give that great piano-like high end sizzle and zing. Rounds are bright and have the upper-mid and high end clarity that suits soloing and more melodic playing. They are a bit "thinner" and lose more punch above the 12th fret than flats. But "punch" and "authority" aren't qualities one is looking for in solos or melodic playing. Because rounds excel at soloing and melodic playing, they come at the price of not having as much definition and punch in the low end or as much authority above the 12th fret.
Neither type of string is good or bad. They do what they do by design. There are trade-offs with each type.
A bass player should choose based on their needs and tonal goals. One type of string does not do it all equally well. Flats and rounds suit their intended purpose.
To those that say flats are dull and lifeless, I feel that way about rounds. Flats aren't bright like rounds, but they sure sound lifeless to me. When I play in the upper registers on rounds, they practically disappear and blend in with the guitars to the point of not being worth playing up there at all. But that's me because no matter where I play on the neck I want my bass to punch out the rhythm section with authority. If I want to play melodies on bass then I could certainly see where rounds are better for that. But I don't play melody, I play as part of the rhythm section.
Rounds, flats...there both good. It just depends what your needs are. If you are roundwound user, don't try telling me your rounds are the be all of bass strings because they leave a lot to be desired. Just as my flats do for you.
However I still read threads where roundwound lovers that have tried flats and went back to rounds, still have misconceptions about flats. Obviously if your tone and style lends itself to the sound of rounds then they are the string for you. If you want more versatility in your sound then again rounds may be the string for you.
But...I see a lot of brief trials of flats resulting in declarations that flats are missing something. That something is the one thing round players are looking for...that typical bright roundwound zing. All I can say to that is...Well, duh! What do you expect? Do you really expect flats to have all they offer AND that zingy brightness?
Look, just like bass speakers that excel at going down low cannot also excel at the high end very well, flats offer one thing and rounds excel at something else.
To say that rounds do everything as well as flats, plus have that bright top end is just plain ignorant.
Flats have a stronger fundamental. The low end and lo-mids of flats have more punch and clarity. The low end of the bass has more definition with flats. Typically notes above the 12th fret have more punch and authority with flats. Because flats excel at these things, flats are the preferred string for those that are looking for those qualities in a string. However, because that is where flats excel, they give up some on the high end (just like the bass speaker analogy).
Rounds give that great piano-like high end sizzle and zing. Rounds are bright and have the upper-mid and high end clarity that suits soloing and more melodic playing. They are a bit "thinner" and lose more punch above the 12th fret than flats. But "punch" and "authority" aren't qualities one is looking for in solos or melodic playing. Because rounds excel at soloing and melodic playing, they come at the price of not having as much definition and punch in the low end or as much authority above the 12th fret.
Neither type of string is good or bad. They do what they do by design. There are trade-offs with each type.
A bass player should choose based on their needs and tonal goals. One type of string does not do it all equally well. Flats and rounds suit their intended purpose.
To those that say flats are dull and lifeless, I feel that way about rounds. Flats aren't bright like rounds, but they sure sound lifeless to me. When I play in the upper registers on rounds, they practically disappear and blend in with the guitars to the point of not being worth playing up there at all. But that's me because no matter where I play on the neck I want my bass to punch out the rhythm section with authority. If I want to play melodies on bass then I could certainly see where rounds are better for that. But I don't play melody, I play as part of the rhythm section.
Rounds, flats...there both good. It just depends what your needs are. If you are roundwound user, don't try telling me your rounds are the be all of bass strings because they leave a lot to be desired. Just as my flats do for you.
+1 to the above. In a perfect situation, I would bring a bass with flats and a bass with rounds on gigs or sessions. It is always important to b e able to cover all the basses needed. However, I haven't had a gig in a while where the TI flats didn't deliver...
Dammit. Every time I think I'm getting into some nice zingy, toppy rounds, I read Sundogue's words of wisdom, and I realize that it's true, especially the point about going into the higher register on rounds. The bottom disappears, and the next thing you know you're getting all mixed up in guitard territory. With flats you don't have that problem. I thinks it might be time for a nice set of Chromes again...
I tried Chromes on my p-bass for a few gigs.
Never could get the attack and thud that I wanted so I'm sorry, but I'm out.
Back to rounds for me........for a while.
Never could get the attack and thud that I wanted so I'm sorry, but I'm out.
Back to rounds for me........for a while.
I tried Chromes on my p-bass for a few gigs.
Never could get the attack and thud that I wanted so I'm sorry, but I'm out.
Back to rounds for me........for a while.
Flats certainly aren't the cure all for everyone. And how you perceive your tone with flats has a lot to do with the rest of the gear you use and how you have it set up.
I like to think of my sound as something fluid and ever changing in that when I discover one piece of the puzzle that just clicks with me, then I find another that isn't quite right.
I played with rounds forever. My rig at the time of switching to flats was a Superfly into two 115 cabs that were more lo-mid focused. I put on some Chromes and wasn't thrilled initially playing alone, nor with my band at first. But after a couple of gigs and some tweaking of my rig I had that "light bulb" moment. I got it!
As my bass was then sounding and feeling full, yet with clarity, I knew I still wanted more...but really needed less. I didn't swap out the strings, because they were now integral to my sound. I got a Carvin BX1200. The tonal options allowed me to tweak more. And being a designer of my own cabs, I took it the next step further by building two 210/6 cabs (very similar to an Acme). So instead of trying to get more character into my cabs, I built more hi-fi sounding ones. Addition to my sound by subtracting. Just like flats did for me.
So what I'm getting at is that while my switch to flats (specifically Chromes) was an epiphany about my sound, it led to even more changes with the rest of my rig. The sound now with Chromes is nothing like it was when I first started playing Chromes. But the Chromes are now just a given and won't get swapped out for something else. It wasn't the strings that weren't right...it was other things in my set up.
It's possible you didn't give the Chromes enough time to settle in, and allow you to feel them out a bit more tonally. Not that you'd need to wait longer than you care to, but I find that most roundwound players do not give flats a long enough period of time to appreciate what they are really all about. Having done it quite a few times myself, I know all too well how that first try with flats feels and sounds. I must have tried to seriously make the switch to flats about half a dozen times or more. Something about them was appealing but it wasn't until I was ready to give up MY tonal goals for the overall tone of the BAND, did I realize just what flats do that I wasn't understanding previously. And since the switch to flats, even how I play is affected. I'm enjoying playing bass more now than I ever did.
It's more like a Zen thing now. Not only has switching to flats changed my sound, it changed my approach and philosophy towards bass. Simplified, loving the space more, letting the music breathe, getting into the groove and locking in with my drummer where at times it is difficult to distinguish between what the drummer is playing and what I'm playing (and I'm speaking tonally as well). Rhythmic Synchronicity. All because of a change to flats? Well, no...but there was a convergence of things in my life and the switch to flats and my approach to bass certainly was all part of this. I'm feeling the sound of bass in our band with my soul now, instead of trying to play my parts perfectly or even as creatively as possible. I don't think about what I'm playing any longer. It just flows.
As I mentioned (I think in my first post) Playing a bass strung with flats and loving it is really more a mindset than an equipment change. It's a conceptual change that has more to do with where you are as a bass player. It's about letting go. With rounds, trying to find "my" sound was like a dog chasing it's own tail. The less I care about my sound the more I enjoy my sound. It's a yin/yang thing.
Flats just kind of woke me up to it.
It's more like a Zen thing now. Not only has switching to flats changed my sound, it changed my approach and philosophy towards bass. Simplified, loving the space more, letting the music breathe, getting into the groove and locking in with my drummer where at times it is difficult to distinguish between what the drummer is playing and what I'm playing (and I'm speaking tonally as well). Rhythmic Synchronicity. All because of a change to flats? Well, no...but there was a convergence of things in my life and the switch to flats and my approach to bass certainly was all part of this. I'm feeling the sound of bass in our band with my soul now, instead of trying to play my parts perfectly or even as creatively as possible. I don't think about what I'm playing any longer. It just flows.
As I mentioned (I think in my first post) Playing a bass strung with flats and loving it is really more a mindset than an equipment change. It's a conceptual change that has more to do with where you are as a bass player. It's about letting go. With rounds, trying to find "my" sound was like a dog chasing it's own tail. The less I care about my sound the more I enjoy my sound. It's a yin/yang thing.
This.
I feel like flats have helped me settle into what I want to be as a bass player. I am done being overly fancy, I just want to put some punch into my sound and groove.
I wish I had another bass I liked to use live, so I could let the flats "settle in" both with the bass and my ears, but after 4 gigs, and those can be very long gigs when you don't have close to the sound you want, I had to throw the towel in.
I have the strings still, and will probably give them another shot sometime.
I have the strings still, and will probably give them another shot sometime.
I've used both over the years. I wore down the frets on a '75
Jazz using Rotosounds for a few years, but great tone. I've got flats on my RBV and love it, but here's the thing. Acquired a 60's RW Jazz and just knew I'd change it to flats (period correct, vintage vibe etc)...no. The bass resonates beautifully
(even unplugged) with nickle rounds. Also acquired new EBMM
Stingray and thought it sounded a bit too zingy with rounds, so tried flats on it and presto! Sounds like the perfect P-Bass on steroids. I think it just depends on the bass and your ear.
Jazz using Rotosounds for a few years, but great tone. I've got flats on my RBV and love it, but here's the thing. Acquired a 60's RW Jazz and just knew I'd change it to flats (period correct, vintage vibe etc)...no. The bass resonates beautifully
(even unplugged) with nickle rounds. Also acquired new EBMM
Stingray and thought it sounded a bit too zingy with rounds, so tried flats on it and presto! Sounds like the perfect P-Bass on steroids. I think it just depends on the bass and your ear.
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