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Confessions of a tone Philistine

jimc

jimc

Sep 17, 2002
902
149
71
New Carsmell, CA
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#1
I've been playing for 25+ years and currently play in a good blues/rock band. I get compliments on my tone pretty regularly but I have a confession. I can't hear what a lot you guys seem to be hearing.

I can't hear the difference between a maple or rosewood fingerboard (or ebony for that matter). I can feel a slight difference but not hear it.

I can't hear a difference between 60s and 70s pickup placement.

I never noticed the make of bridge making a difference to the tone nor if the nut was bone or metal or plastic.

Shoot, I'd be hard pressed to tell you if the strings I was using were nickel or stainless steel unless I had the sales receipt.

Alder or ash or mahogany body I couldn't tell you unless somebody told me.

Bartolini or Aguilar or what have you. As long as they work good I'm happy. Same with pickups.

I'm not saying there isn't a difference but at most I'll tweak the tone controls a bit and I'll sound just like me as usual.

I hate trolls and I'm certainly not trying to troll here but I wonder how many of you really think in a blindfold test you would be able to tell the difference say between a preamp or a fingerboard wood. I've heard Eric Johnson claims he can hear a difference between 9v batteries. Me I hear good or not so good. I wonder if there's a whole world of sound subtleties I'm missing out on.

Of course not hearing a difference hasn't stopped me buying, selling and trading like a looney!
 
#3
Listening to the bass solo'd in a recording studio setup, either through studio monitors or good quality headphones allows you to hear many of these subtleties. I spend most of my time practising with headphones and my bass goes direct into my Mac, which means I can pick out some subtle differences, but when my bass is going through an amp and a cab, I agree that these things become very difficult to pick out.
 
#4
With bass my experience between the differences is almost non existent. Blind I wouldn't be able to tell you if it's a P or a J or a humbucker. Unless they were barking then I might be able to get in a good guess. :D

But with guitars I can hear the difference between some tonewoods. Mahogany and basswood tend to sound the same to me (I have both), but alder and ash are different. Alder seems to be less dark and ash just pops! Now neck construction I hear the sustain differences. Duration is about the same for bolt on versus neck through, but the neck through seems to start off thicker.
 
#5
I'd agree that I probably couldn't pick the differences out in a blindfold test in most situations, but what I have found is that there are many tones that just drive me up the wall (in a bad way). Whenever I'm playing something that doesn't sound "right" to me, I find myself constantly tweaking knobs, trying to "fix" my tone. As such I try to pay attention to the things on those basses I don't like, so I can try to figure out exactly what I DO like in a bass. Its a work in progress, but I've found that I do very much like my Rick, particularly recorded.

A good example of pickiness in practice: I like the tone of a good Precision, but I've played more P-basses than I count that I didn't like at all... and only a handful that I do. Not sure what it is about the ones I do like, mainly it seems like the pickups and strings are the most important tone factors with all the rest of it being very subtle.
 
#6
When you go DI or direct in a computer, or so on, you are only hearing the bass. That's where you can tell the difference. When you go in an amp, that's pretty much gone. There is still the difference in a Ric and a Jazz Bass, a Steinberger and a Gibson hollowbody, etc. Different basses have undeniable unique character undoubtedly. However, most of tone is in the fingers, in the pickups, in the strings and bridge setup, and in the amp.
 
#8
jimc said:
I'm not saying there isn't a difference but at most I'll tweak the tone controls a bit and I'll sound just like me as usual.
Click to expand...

I gotta admit ... without any effects ... no matter what my bass is comprised of, for the most part, I always find my usual-ish tone.

Of course not hearing a difference hasn't stopped me buying, selling and trading like a looney!
Click to expand...

.... hmmmm ... a certain Fodera comes to mind. :smug: ... a wonderful PJ Celinder 5'ver too. ;)
 
#9
I have three basses: a 4-string Fender fretless Jazz, a 5-string Fender fretted Jazz, and a Schecter Studio 5. If you blindfolded me and played the same notes through the same amp I could definitely tell the difference between them.

And that's good enough for me. :-)
 
#11
I'm with the OP and I love the thread title BTW. Ash vs Alder. NT vs well-executed bolt-on. RW vs maple. Put on the blindfold and it's all buried so deep under pickups, pup placement, eq (onboard or otherwise) and strings that it's backround noise. Any time I've seen unknown clips posted here that has been quite clearly borne out. I smile when I see a poster stating he was happy he could tell the diff between RW and maple boards correctly, completely failing to acknowledge that the odds of being right are 50/50 and he did it only once, whereas the overall mix of guesses was about 50/50. Even luthiers who preach this stuff admit that the difference between 2 pieces of the same wood can be greater than that between pieces of different wood. The Emperor is buck naked as far as I can see, although I realize there are legions who see it differently.........without a blindfold :-)
 
#12
I haven't read it in a while, but I believe in "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance", they discuss two different types of riders. One likes the freedom and the feel of the wind in their hair, and the other, when they reach the top of a mountain, will stop to adjust the mixture to compensate for the thinner air.

While I can agree with some of your post and am probably more like you, I don't doubt that some people can feel and hear subtle distinctions.

Wine people often prefer cheap wines in blind taste tests.

I also think all three grades of gas come from the same tank.
 
#14
I own a 2002 MIA Precision w/rosewood, I have a friend's '71 w/maple on loan. They both weigh the same so I think the body-woods may be the same. The '71's body is re-finished.

I can say that they definitley both have more similarities than differences. The differences are crucial but not negative.

The '71 has more thru-body vibe and tends to lose something in the D & G strings open & fretted. It also tends to have more clang in the tone (it does have Barts), even when rolled off completely. The punch has to be finessed on the '71. A lighter touch is needed.

The 2002 is even all the way around and has an over-all warmer tone. I have to dig more to get the punch but, it's there...just below the surface. The 2002 is much more forgiving of heavy-handed playing.
They both still sound like P-basses. If the '71 was all original parts but still had the refinish? That would be a fun comparison.
 
#15
I can relate: I'm a "bass Philistine." I pulled a MIA P-Bass off the wall at GC last week, and tried to convince myself it felt so much better than my 2001 MIM Jazz Bass...but honestly, I couldn't really sense a difference. Didn't feel like an $800 or so difference, and didn't sound like one, either.
 
#16
Hondo83 said:
I can relate: I'm a "bass Philistine." I pulled a MIA P-Bass off the wall at GC last week, and tried to convince myself it felt so much better than my 2001 MIM Jazz Bass...but honestly, I couldn't really sense a difference. Didn't feel like an $800 or so difference, and didn't sound like one, either.
Click to expand...

In 2002 when I bought mine, I ran the rack @ GC on MIM and reluctantly picked up an MIA, looked at the price tag, grunted, plugged it in and about 4 notes later understood the difference. It was huge...in that particular case.

It's the one I bought. It was about tone.
 
#17
I can when its in person thru very good headphones or monitors. Its a skill one reallly only developes if one is quite obsessed with music imo. Or if one just retains the hearing abiloity one had as a kid. Music obsessed? As in really into paying attention and listening. Getting lost in the music yet at same time paying attention to details. One can be a great musician and not have that level of hearing ability. Those who have it tend to be more picky sound wise then most imo, we're the tone freaks perhaps. Lol. The average person just hears, they dont actively listen. Same for sight. Those who do meditation and/or other practices that orient toward stuff like wanting to keep their senses sharp and acute, who pay more attention to things and more actively use their senses then the average peep does.

Few people have perfect pitch or relative pitch without working on developing that. Same goes for haeving greater then average hearing, peripheral vision etc. Those who excercise their senses, and actively use them on purpose. As in listening for details, and trying to hear both the whole and the seperate parts. Those who do kung fu excercise etc for sensorary developement. Fols like that and the very young who havent stifled their senses like modern day society wants most to do as adults. Lol.

A few people have very acute hearing or sight as though its just natural to them. It is natural for humans. But most over time as they grow up, stifle their senses. Most anyone can increase their hearing ability with some work. Few bother to do that. Some never even really give it a thought.

Is there a bad side to being able to hear the small but liked diff in one kind of wood over another? Sure. we tend to be less easilly satisfied. And tend to have a quest for the perfect instrument for us along with getting better then the average stereo systems for our homes etc. Its a more expensive or at least a more picky lifestyle in a way. Lol. But I wouldnt trade it for the average peeps hearing level ever. To me itd be like choosing to be half color blind. Lol.
 
#18
Should there be a Philistine Club? I'm in.

The natural environment for me is a pub/bar full (hopefully) of tone deaf drunk people.
I consider it a win if I can hear myself, "tone" is some mythical beast that sometimes puts in an appearance, & all the subtleties go out of the window.

FWIW I prefer Ash to Alder, 'cause it's prettier.
 
#20
I know how it works with ME...

If I'm PLAYING the bass, I draw a lot of distinctions, the wood resonance, the vibration under my fingers, how much attack is needed to produce a certain response, and yeah, I probably could tell a rosewood neck from a maple neck, a P from a J, and even 500K pots from 250K. Yeah, I can "hear" those distinctions if I'm physically playing it... but it's a LOT more tactile player feedback in that loop than just through my ears.

If somebody else is playing it, I get about half as much info, I might not be able to make the same distinctions.

If somebody else is playing it, and I receive the sound through my computer speakers, I get even less feedback, I can't tell a Sadowsky from an SX.

If somebody else is playing it in a full live band situation, I can't tell sh---. I couldn't pick out ANY characteristics of the bass after it's run through a preamp, stage monitoring, or FOH. Impossible.

That's just me. Not saying someone else couldn't sit in the 230th row of the concert and pick out a particular bass characteristic, but I sure couldn't.
 

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