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Confessions of a tone Philistine
- Thread starter jimc
- Start date
I also can't distinguish between a $10 power cable and a $2000 cable but that's for another thread 
The $2000 power cables provide a much more "balanced" playing experience by eliminating all the weight of those dollar bills from the billfold your left rear pocket.
Exploiter8
Demons run when a good man goes to war
I'm with you, jimc.
Other than using a BDDI or VT to get rid of the "muddiness," I always end up sounding like me. ...And that's a good thing!
X8
Other than using a BDDI or VT to get rid of the "muddiness," I always end up sounding like me. ...And that's a good thing!
X8
Someone needs to quote this!
Realistically, none of those things make MASSIVE tonal differences besides the 60s vs. 70s pickup spacing. Most of that stuff is just for people to get their bass that much closer to how they want it to sound/look so that it would be best suited for them.
But, like Lublin said, at the end of the day there is awesome and there is suck. That's all that matters.
I've found that different musicians have different ears. Some are quick to hear, can pick out multiple tones at once, and generally seem to have been born with their brain ready to listen. Others have to train these skills to increase their musical ability. And some are below average, needing excessive work to enjoy music, or even tonally challenged.
Personally, I'm in the middle. I don't get the huge kick from music that others do, but I enjoy it -- and that's why I love bass. The tone is only part, the rhythm and dynamics are also huge with bass.
Personally, I'm in the middle. I don't get the huge kick from music that others do, but I enjoy it -- and that's why I love bass. The tone is only part, the rhythm and dynamics are also huge with bass.
All my basses, bar the Hohner 4-string, put a smile on my face when I play them, I love the motorbike analogy in an earlier post..Screw the mixture, it messes with my fun time.
I am not at all fond of Fender-shaped basses, because they all look the same (read "I am too lazy to notice p/up placement, pickguards and such"), but I know for a fact, one day I will pick up a Fender, it will make me smile and then I will sell a kidney to own it. I just cannot tell the difference, without taking a second look, between Fenders and all the similar ones, like Sadowsky, Lakland.
I am not at all fond of Fender-shaped basses, because they all look the same (read "I am too lazy to notice p/up placement, pickguards and such"), but I know for a fact, one day I will pick up a Fender, it will make me smile and then I will sell a kidney to own it. I just cannot tell the difference, without taking a second look, between Fenders and all the similar ones, like Sadowsky, Lakland.
Can I hear some differences? Sure. My Stingray and my Precision don't sound all that much alike, which is why I like having them both. But I'd bet that if you secretly made some changes to one or the other, recorded before and after samples, and asked me to identify which is which (before or after) and tell you what the change was, in many cases I wouldn't do much better than a random person would do by simply guessing.
Having seen the occasional A/B test here and also on some recording forums, I've concluded what I suspected all along is true. The vast majority of people who claim they can hear those subtle differences and consistently identify them time after time *SERIOUSLY* overestimate their abilities. That's not my opinion, that's a fact that the tests demonstrate over and over again. Are there some people who picked out the differences in every one of those tests? Sure. But then again, there's always some sports averse wife who makes her NCAA tournament picks based on the cuteness of the schools' mascots and ends up getting EVERY game right, much to her macho sports junkie husband's embarrassment. So it's certainly reasonable to assume that at least some of those who say "See, I TOLD you I could do it!" have simply guessed right.
The other fact that comes out of these tests is that the stronger a person's guarantee that he can do it before hand, the more and varied the excuses are as to why they couldn't do it in THAT PARTICULAR test. The funny thing is that when they try to assert that they really can do it, just not under that particular set of circumstances, their excuses are EXACTLY the reasons why so many changes are simply too subtle to hear in a recorded mix or in a live setting, especially factored into all the other differences between two basses.
Now, having said that, I certainly agree that it's a lot of fun to tweak, to buy/sell/trade, and simply to try other basses. If you keep things in perspective (for example, accept that only 1 in 1,000,000 people in your audiences will ever notice, let alone CARE) and don't let it turn into an "addiction", then have fun trying things and you'll certainly come across occasional changes that make a noticeable and/or meaningful difference to you. And THAT'S what makes it all so much fun. But if you try claiming to me that you can CLEARLY hear the tonal differences between 1963 Fender Jazz that has been stored in a tweed case versus an identical 1963 Jazz that's been stored in a black case, you're going have to get it right 100 consecutive times before I'll stop laughing derisively in your face.
Count me in among the Philistines!
Having seen the occasional A/B test here and also on some recording forums, I've concluded what I suspected all along is true. The vast majority of people who claim they can hear those subtle differences and consistently identify them time after time *SERIOUSLY* overestimate their abilities. That's not my opinion, that's a fact that the tests demonstrate over and over again. Are there some people who picked out the differences in every one of those tests? Sure. But then again, there's always some sports averse wife who makes her NCAA tournament picks based on the cuteness of the schools' mascots and ends up getting EVERY game right, much to her macho sports junkie husband's embarrassment. So it's certainly reasonable to assume that at least some of those who say "See, I TOLD you I could do it!" have simply guessed right.
The other fact that comes out of these tests is that the stronger a person's guarantee that he can do it before hand, the more and varied the excuses are as to why they couldn't do it in THAT PARTICULAR test. The funny thing is that when they try to assert that they really can do it, just not under that particular set of circumstances, their excuses are EXACTLY the reasons why so many changes are simply too subtle to hear in a recorded mix or in a live setting, especially factored into all the other differences between two basses.
Now, having said that, I certainly agree that it's a lot of fun to tweak, to buy/sell/trade, and simply to try other basses. If you keep things in perspective (for example, accept that only 1 in 1,000,000 people in your audiences will ever notice, let alone CARE) and don't let it turn into an "addiction", then have fun trying things and you'll certainly come across occasional changes that make a noticeable and/or meaningful difference to you. And THAT'S what makes it all so much fun. But if you try claiming to me that you can CLEARLY hear the tonal differences between 1963 Fender Jazz that has been stored in a tweed case versus an identical 1963 Jazz that's been stored in a black case, you're going have to get it right 100 consecutive times before I'll stop laughing derisively in your face.
Count me in among the Philistines!
I can't say I could pick out those differences in a blind test, but in more of an eye doctor test (which is better, 1 or 2? OK, now which is better, 1 or 2? etc...) I think I'd have preferences. That's how I've gone about modifying my bass until I was happy. Just trying different components with a trial and error (mostly error) approach and eventually landing on a bass that is exactly what I've always wished for.
Even with my own bass, if you changed some small thing and then blindfolded me, I might or might not be able to tell you what was different in a blind test, but I think I'd notice that something wasn't quite right... We've probably all had that happen when a knob gets bumped and we didn't know it, but started trying to figure out what it was that was making our tone sound off...
-JV
Even with my own bass, if you changed some small thing and then blindfolded me, I might or might not be able to tell you what was different in a blind test, but I think I'd notice that something wasn't quite right... We've probably all had that happen when a knob gets bumped and we didn't know it, but started trying to figure out what it was that was making our tone sound off...
-JV
well, I can tell the difference between a P and a J bass just by looking at it.
I can tell things like probable pickup type, but that's as far as it goes. As far as that Eric Johnson 9v story goes, I think that he can tell if it's new or old, and I can do that too--it does change the effects of the distortion--heck they even make voltage starve boxes so you can get that sound
I can tell things like probable pickup type, but that's as far as it goes. As far as that Eric Johnson 9v story goes, I think that he can tell if it's new or old, and I can do that too--it does change the effects of the distortion--heck they even make voltage starve boxes so you can get that sound
That's about where I'm at.
Basically, those that just get out and play, and those that totally overthink their sound. Most of the time I feel I'm the former, but everyonce in a while I come across a certain tone and just spend way too much time "inspired" (tweaking it) to make it better.
Glad to know I'm not the only one.
Who can tell the difference? It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!I can hear the difference in pick ups (single coil, split coil, soap bar, ect.), or if a bass is active or passive but that's about it. Woods, grains, bridges, and other stuff mean nothing to me. Basses have two categories: Sounds and plays awesome or sounds like crap regardless of the price tag.
Hummm.. I think most the tone thing is in the head. Yes thru headphones you might pick up on little things but who plays thru headphones? Bass in a gig thats another animal. All the tone you pick apart and slave for is washed away and nobody but you gives a darn anyway ,the people just want to hear good music.
Basically, those that just get out and play, and those that totally overthink their sound. Most of the time I feel I'm the former, but everyonce in a while I come across a certain tone and just spend way too much time "inspired" (tweaking it) to make it better.[/QUOTE]
Thats what I was trying to say. Just get decent gear,take care of it and get out and play. nobody cares if you have a bone nut and sustain for day's thru custom cabs...just play some damn bass.
Glad to know I'm not the only one. Who can tell the difference? It's a conspiracy, I tell ya![/QUOTE]
The only diff is the price
Thats what I was trying to say. Just get decent gear,take care of it and get out and play. nobody cares if you have a bone nut and sustain for day's thru custom cabs...just play some damn bass.
Glad to know I'm not the only one.
Who can tell the difference? It's a conspiracy, I tell ya![/QUOTE]The only diff is the price
This is a summary of everything I've learned playing bass for 30 years. Your tone solo'd really doesn't mean much. What's much more important is how you instrument sits within the mix of your own group.
Much like the original post, I can't tell much difference between instruments but I have learned through trial and error that a P bass records and sits nicely in the mix with nothing more than a tiny bit of compression.
Much like the original post, I can't tell much difference between instruments but I have learned through trial and error that a P bass records and sits nicely in the mix with nothing more than a tiny bit of compression.
I agree with OP. If there's a Philistine group, I want in! I think I've gotten to the point of telling a J and a P apart. But, you could hand me, let's say, 5 different MIM J's, and I could maybe pick up very suttle differences, but that's probably going to be more feel and minor set-up differences. I like the wine reference. I enjoy wine, and I like some fine wines, but sometimes a box of Franzia does the trick.
I think that's another pretty good metaphor, beer. Good craft beers are amazing, and delicious, but if I'm just lookin to get a good buzz going, Bud Light does the trick just fine. Similarly, a very finely made bass is good and great, but if I'm going to play a rock show at some dive, my Squier is going to do just fine.
I think that's another pretty good metaphor, beer. Good craft beers are amazing, and delicious, but if I'm just lookin to get a good buzz going, Bud Light does the trick just fine. Similarly, a very finely made bass is good and great, but if I'm going to play a rock show at some dive, my Squier is going to do just fine.
I have to disagree with the original poster. Slightly.
If I'm playing blindfolded, I'd instantly be able to tell the difference between nickle and stainless steel strings. SS just have a tackiness to them that nickles don't. Most of us (I hope) would also be able to tell the difference between a P Bass and J Bass tonally.
Same for the preamps. I wouldn't be able to tell you the exact preamp by listening to it, but there can be a huge difference tonally between an Aguilar OBP3 and say a Demeter.
As for the woods and bridges part of your post, I 100% agree with you. I think a lot of it is perception. One of the best sounding and playing basses I've ever owned was made from a $20 plywood body I got off ebay. I refinished it and put it together and it sings.
If I'm playing blindfolded, I'd instantly be able to tell the difference between nickle and stainless steel strings. SS just have a tackiness to them that nickles don't. Most of us (I hope) would also be able to tell the difference between a P Bass and J Bass tonally.
Same for the preamps. I wouldn't be able to tell you the exact preamp by listening to it, but there can be a huge difference tonally between an Aguilar OBP3 and say a Demeter.
As for the woods and bridges part of your post, I 100% agree with you. I think a lot of it is perception. One of the best sounding and playing basses I've ever owned was made from a $20 plywood body I got off ebay. I refinished it and put it together and it sings.
Boy, am I relieved to read this thread!
I know I don't have the best hearing or musical ear, and I get really bummed when I read things like people being able to pick up all these microscopic nuances that I could never hear.
Bottom line for me...it's kind of like art. I may not know much about it, but I know what I like. Same with bass tone.
I know I don't have the best hearing or musical ear, and I get really bummed when I read things like people being able to pick up all these microscopic nuances that I could never hear.
Bottom line for me...it's kind of like art. I may not know much about it, but I know what I like. Same with bass tone.
I love this thread.
I can definitely hear the difference between ash and alder. I've owned some gorgeous ash basses that I wanted very much to hang on to, but their tone just didn't do it for me, not even at bar gigs.
I can also hear relatively small differences in pickup placement: reverse versus non-reverse split-P, 60's versus 70's J-bass.
That said, do these differences ultimately matter to anyone else but me? I don't believe so: not at a bar gig, not at a recording studio.
I can definitely hear the difference between ash and alder. I've owned some gorgeous ash basses that I wanted very much to hang on to, but their tone just didn't do it for me, not even at bar gigs.
I can also hear relatively small differences in pickup placement: reverse versus non-reverse split-P, 60's versus 70's J-bass.
That said, do these differences ultimately matter to anyone else but me? I don't believe so: not at a bar gig, not at a recording studio.
