If you are just playing at your house or small venues the Ampeg Pf20T, if you are playing moderate sized venues PF50T, if you have PA support either will work.
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My taste in bass tone was established by Jack Casady and Phil Lesh playing through hard-working tube amps (Fender Showman). I love the sound and feel of a tube amp at the edge (or maybe a little over the edge) of saturation and breakup.
These days, I usually get that with an Ashdown CTM-30 (30 W), which has a separate winding on the output transformer dedicated to a DI out. At that power level I can usually crank it up to where it sounds good to me without making it impossible to balance the mix through the PA, and let the PA do the heavy lifting.
I've seen some CTM-30s or Little Bastards (basically the same amp with different cosmetics) listed for surprisingly high prices recently - they're up there with what I saw not too long ago for an Ampeg PF50t. But you should be able to get something in that class used, try it, and not be out more than the cost of shipping if you decide to sell it.
Another way to go if you don't want to make the investment in a tube amp is a preamp. I've read a lot of good comments about the Sushi Box Underground Accelerator, although I haven't had a chance to try one myself. At the price, I've considered getting one "just in case".
So I say - try it!
These days, I usually get that with an Ashdown CTM-30 (30 W), which has a separate winding on the output transformer dedicated to a DI out. At that power level I can usually crank it up to where it sounds good to me without making it impossible to balance the mix through the PA, and let the PA do the heavy lifting.
I've seen some CTM-30s or Little Bastards (basically the same amp with different cosmetics) listed for surprisingly high prices recently - they're up there with what I saw not too long ago for an Ampeg PF50t. But you should be able to get something in that class used, try it, and not be out more than the cost of shipping if you decide to sell it.
Another way to go if you don't want to make the investment in a tube amp is a preamp. I've read a lot of good comments about the Sushi Box Underground Accelerator, although I haven't had a chance to try one myself. At the price, I've considered getting one "just in case".
So I say - try it!
Just grab a V4B. It will get very loud and can work on practically any cabinet configuration. The dynamic tube tone and presence are amazing, and you experience the power amp saturation at a useable volume. There is really no way to get the full experience without going all in on tubes.
I have a Little Bastard 30 and it was not enough to gig everywhere, but it sounds great. I can’t let that one go.
I have a Little Bastard 30 and it was not enough to gig everywhere, but it sounds great. I can’t let that one go.
JeezyMcNuggles
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V4b will do everything you need, amazingly.Note: This is long and rambly... sorry. I really don't know where to start on this one
Ok, this is the definition of setting myself up to fail, but I recently got a deal on a couple of Ampeg cabs (410 and 115) and their mere presence has been whispering for me to challenge my previous habits and enter the world of black magic and imagination.
Specifically, I've been running "modern" sounding amps pretty much since I've played bass... first amp was a Univox combo, then I upgraded to a Peavey Mk IV, then a Megabass through an 1810 cab, and in recent years Genz Benz amps (main being a ShuttleMax 12.0). I am historically a devotee of the new... the clean... the light... etcetera.
But, to be blunt, I'm bored with it all... so I'm considering spending money on amp technology I don't really believe in, in the hope that it'll reignite my interest. Its the tension between what I would like to be true, and what I suspect is true. Also, I'm not really all that sure I trust my ears in this sort of thing... I either just like it or I don't. So, yeah. Setting myself up to spend money and be dissatisfied is what I'm doing.
The aforementioned ShuttleMax ostensibly has a tube preamp circuit, but I don't really care for the sound I get. I've owned several of the Tech21 VT-bass pedals, and I think (now that I'm writing that) they are what planted the seed in my brain that I might actually like a tube amp.
Ampeg SVT or V4-B seem like the easy answer... but that seems like a minefield of its own. I live in L.A.... no, not that one, "Lower Alabama" (the Florida panhandle), and there's no quick way short of a six hour trip to Orlando that I'm going to be able to find examples to listen to. So I have no idea if the new stuff "has the mojo"... plus, understandably, nobody wants to ship a boat anchor partly made of thin glass. So, the right answer, go listen to some, is harder that it might otherwise be.
Is there any easy answer to my dilemma that isn't "get over it... the magic you seek doesn't exist"? Visiting Central Florida (Bass Central probably) is the answer. But I'm still going to post this
SVT will do the same thing, but louder and cleaner. But, it comes at a cost of 80lbs, and 4 ohms.
My SVT sits on my cab at the practice spot/studio. My v4b goes everywhere with me.
This is slightly lighter than my Mesa 400
And Buddha accompanies me.
Called simply the Bass Pre-Amp. It's what became the VTBP-201S by James Demeter but back then he called his company Innovative Audio Systems into Peavey Classic 50/50 power amplifier which bridged mono is 100 watts. The 8 little bulldogs EL-84s give this setup a really punchy sound as opposed to the Mesa. I think it is an ultralinear design, has to be to get that much wattage out of 8 EL-84s. Different power amp growl but I hardly crank it that much. An efficient cab makes this useable at most gigs even if I do not go through FOH> The pre-amp has a Jensen transformer for the DI
And Buddha accompanies me.
Called simply the Bass Pre-Amp. It's what became the VTBP-201S by James Demeter but back then he called his company Innovative Audio Systems into Peavey Classic 50/50 power amplifier which bridged mono is 100 watts. The 8 little bulldogs EL-84s give this setup a really punchy sound as opposed to the Mesa. I think it is an ultralinear design, has to be to get that much wattage out of 8 EL-84s. Different power amp growl but I hardly crank it that much. An efficient cab makes this useable at most gigs even if I do not go through FOH> The pre-amp has a Jensen transformer for the DI
Greyfin10: “I'm considering spending money on amp technology I don't really believe in, in the hope that it'll reignite my interest.”
Wasnex: “I have had fun doing the research, building my collection, and engaging on TalkBass, but my passion for playing has not been restored.”
Wasnex: “I have had fun doing the research, building my collection, and engaging on TalkBass, but my passion for playing has not been restored.”
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I owned some tube amp during the years, like: Fender (super bass), Marshall (both vba 400 and jcm800 bass), Orange (both ad200b and terror bass 1000) and Mesa Boogie (walkabout), even if I loved them all, the one which I've found the more practical for my needs is the terror bass => very light and compact, not so many issues with tubes (since this is a pre only tube amp) and you have not to spend 1 billion dollar to change the power section ones and set the bias (the vba 400 was a nightmare...8 power tubes 
), the only issue I had with this little head was it's a "one trick pony", a beautiful trick if it's the sound you are searching for, but nothing more than that (old school rock/hard rock sound), that said in the past few years I've sold them all and started to play with amp sims (own a helix lt, but you can't go wrong with kemper and axe fx too) and I'm very satisfied with the tone (and I can switch back and forth from a "new hi-fi" sound to "old school tube grit" by pressing one button), so, if you can, I suggest to try one of these before you buy a tube amp, a helix is for sure much cheaper than any tube amp, just my 2 cents
), the only issue I had with this little head was it's a "one trick pony", a beautiful trick if it's the sound you are searching for, but nothing more than that (old school rock/hard rock sound), that said in the past few years I've sold them all and started to play with amp sims (own a helix lt, but you can't go wrong with kemper and axe fx too) and I'm very satisfied with the tone (and I can switch back and forth from a "new hi-fi" sound to "old school tube grit" by pressing one button), so, if you can, I suggest to try one of these before you buy a tube amp, a helix is for sure much cheaper than any tube amp, just my 2 cents
Salud!
I can't really get into any detail, and I think I'll never buy a big amp... but the ones I've played (live, at rehearsal spaces, at stores) sound really different. And better. Size matters. Tubes matter. (needless to say, this is just a personal opinion, and subject to my tone tastes)
Tube amps have a... density of sound that is real, to me. The experience of playing a BIG amp I haven't found anywhere else.
But, as I said, I prefer my tiny rig (112+MarkBass head), thank you very much. Once recorded of passed through PA with the rest of the band, all that gets mostly lost.
I can't really get into any detail, and I think I'll never buy a big amp... but the ones I've played (live, at rehearsal spaces, at stores) sound really different. And better. Size matters. Tubes matter. (needless to say, this is just a personal opinion, and subject to my tone tastes)
Tube amps have a... density of sound that is real, to me. The experience of playing a BIG amp I haven't found anywhere else.
But, as I said, I prefer my tiny rig (112+MarkBass head), thank you very much. Once recorded of passed through PA with the rest of the band, all that gets mostly lost.
The answer is quite obvious:
Buy a Kemper, the 600W version, and a very good FRFR cabinet (one that actually works for bass).
A Kemper is very light and easy to ship.
Get profiles for the SVT. And Super Bassman, Mesa Boogie Bass Prodigy, Orange 200 and so forth.
Play them all. Decide what you like best. Sell the Kemper and go for your favorite amp.
Buy a Kemper, the 600W version, and a very good FRFR cabinet (one that actually works for bass).
A Kemper is very light and easy to ship.
Get profiles for the SVT. And Super Bassman, Mesa Boogie Bass Prodigy, Orange 200 and so forth.
Play them all. Decide what you like best. Sell the Kemper and go for your favorite amp.
I have an Ashdown CTM-100 that I used exclusively for recording. There is a sound from a Tube Amp that is very different than others.
The problem isn’t your equipment, it’s you. Throwing money at this won’t solve anything. It will likely help for a very short time, the thrill of new equipment, but like a new car, the thrill wears off long before the payments.
Take some time off of playing and see how you feel.
Take some time off of playing and see how you feel.
Sounds like you're kind of willing to gamble on a tube head not knowing if you'll even like one until after you owned and played one.
You are to be complimented for having logic and common sense with your desire for a tube amp.
After reading sooooooo many positive comments and remarks about tube amps, about 20 years ago, I bought a brand new Mesa 400+ tube amp. It was a very expensive gamble and I lost! I was never happy with it. Had a strong mid range sound that was difficult for me to tame down and I just could not get sounds that I liked from it. (YMMV) I went back to solid state and they work for me! (YMMV)
The Mesa 400+ had 12, 6L6 power tubes. In today's world, that would be around $450 to $600 for a re-tube. With no tube testers readily available, there can be this constant distrust if the tubes are A-OK on over a course of time. And then there is the issue of "matched tubes". LORD! Tube amps can be a hassle on different levels including weight.
For boredom with a current amp, things like different strings, eqing, different plucking positions, a guitar pick and even different instrument cables (George Ls improved my sound by 10%.) can make a change and a sound to our liking.
Ahhhh, enjoy life there in L.A.!
Side note, on line stores like Sweetwater, Musician's Friend and etc have a 45 day return policy. Now, if they sell bass tube amps, I don't know.
You are to be complimented for having logic and common sense with your desire for a tube amp.
After reading sooooooo many positive comments and remarks about tube amps, about 20 years ago, I bought a brand new Mesa 400+ tube amp. It was a very expensive gamble and I lost! I was never happy with it. Had a strong mid range sound that was difficult for me to tame down and I just could not get sounds that I liked from it. (YMMV) I went back to solid state and they work for me! (YMMV)
The Mesa 400+ had 12, 6L6 power tubes. In today's world, that would be around $450 to $600 for a re-tube. With no tube testers readily available, there can be this constant distrust if the tubes are A-OK on over a course of time. And then there is the issue of "matched tubes". LORD! Tube amps can be a hassle on different levels including weight.
For boredom with a current amp, things like different strings, eqing, different plucking positions, a guitar pick and even different instrument cables (George Ls improved my sound by 10%.) can make a change and a sound to our liking.
Ahhhh, enjoy life there in L.A.!
Side note, on line stores like Sweetwater, Musician's Friend and etc have a 45 day return policy. Now, if they sell bass tube amps, I don't know.
Note: This is long and rambly... sorry. I really don't know where to start on this one
Ok, this is the definition of setting myself up to fail, but I recently got a deal on a couple of Ampeg cabs (410 and 115) and their mere presence has been whispering for me to challenge my previous habits and enter the world of black magic and imagination.
Specifically, I've been running "modern" sounding amps pretty much since I've played bass... first amp was a Univox combo, then I upgraded to a Peavey Mk IV, then a Megabass through an 1810 cab, and in recent years Genz Benz amps (main being a ShuttleMax 12.0). I am historically a devotee of the new... the clean... the light... etcetera.
But, to be blunt, I'm bored with it all... so I'm considering spending money on amp technology I don't really believe in, in the hope that it'll reignite my interest. Its the tension between what I would like to be true, and what I suspect is true. Also, I'm not really all that sure I trust my ears in this sort of thing... I either just like it or I don't. So, yeah. Setting myself up to spend money and be dissatisfied is what I'm doing.
The aforementioned ShuttleMax ostensibly has a tube preamp circuit, but I don't really care for the sound I get. I've owned several of the Tech21 VT-bass pedals, and I think (now that I'm writing that) they are what planted the seed in my brain that I might actually like a tube amp.
Ampeg SVT or V4-B seem like the easy answer... but that seems like a minefield of its own. I live in L.A.... no, not that one, "Lower Alabama" (the Florida panhandle), and there's no quick way short of a six hour trip to Orlando that I'm going to be able to find examples to listen to. So I have no idea if the new stuff "has the mojo"... plus, understandably, nobody wants to ship a boat anchor partly made of thin glass. So, the right answer, go listen to some, is harder that it might otherwise be.
Is there any easy answer to my dilemma that isn't "get over it... the magic you seek doesn't exist"? Visiting Central Florida (Bass Central probably) is the answer. But I'm still going to post this
Yeah. Basscentral is the answer. Probably
I did research on some tube heads when I was ready to make the switch. I ended up getting something pretty different when I went shopping haha still an all tube head, just not the one I was shooting for. I went in wanting a Fender Super Bassman 300 but came out with an Electric Power Unit. I've been very happy with it ever since and haven't used an SS head for years. Nothing at all against SS heads, still love them. But My Electric has really kept me extremely happy since I got it.
What's fun about gear in general (if not expensive and somewhat contagious) is that there is a huge variety of tone possibilities out there, and it can be really enjoyable to go exploring. Personally, I love tube amps and use them for both recording and gigging. If you're looking for something that can easily do both, I'll echo what several other folks have said and recommend the Ampeg PF-50T. I've found it to be plenty loud through a 210, and the direct-out options sound great for FOH or recording. I got a great deal on a used one through Guitar Center, and they've got a good return policy if it doesn't work for you.
There's no guarantee that a tube amp will reignite a passion for playing, but I found that it got me closer to the classic tone I loved on my favorite records, which made me more excited to keep working on those songs. There's something about that tone that teaches your ears and fingers how to serve the sound. YMMV, of course, but I'd say it's worth a try if you're curious about it.
There's no guarantee that a tube amp will reignite a passion for playing, but I found that it got me closer to the classic tone I loved on my favorite records, which made me more excited to keep working on those songs. There's something about that tone that teaches your ears and fingers how to serve the sound. YMMV, of course, but I'd say it's worth a try if you're curious about it.
