Conversation I've had with my drummer

[haybik_gibon_31]

Hi bass friends,

I was rather jarred with a conversation I've had with my friend who plays drums with me, and I'm here for some advice.

For a bit of context, I've been "playing" musical instruments (started with violin, through keys, guitar and settled on bass) for a loong time but never had the discipline to practice seriously and get my chops up and be able to reliably play more than 2 pieces in their entirety without slipping up. 6 months ago something clicked and I've started taking it really seriously, practicing/playing 2-3 hours every day.

I put together a group of friends who had similar yet different enough tastes to make our own music. My goal isn't to get up and running playing gigs, I have a day job (much respect to those who do both of them). What I'm really interested in is creating something with my friends on our own pace, having a good time and pouring my heart and soul into it.

My drummer is a seasoned musician, much better chops and a lot of experience but has stagnated over the years not really having any incentive to push himself.

Finally the story: I've finally gotten around to arranging a jam session with him after quite some time and I was stoked to play with a real drummer and not a click track. I said let's jam to some i-v-iv and warm up and started just playing just some root notes. After a while I got bored so started throwing in some sixteenth note fills, flourishes, whatever you want to call it. Nothing crazy, I'm not Jaco, Sheehan, Geddy; I'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." And asked if I knew how to play Sunshine of Your Love or Are You Gonna Be My Girl (lol) and told me I had to learn to walk before I could run. Now I really respect those artists and I greatly admire Jack Bruce, but as I said playing covers is not something I'm interested in. I learn them on my own time (I've been going through Shadows of Motown) and play to the recordings but I want to create. I was rather taken aback and said "ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that. Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Now I know overplaying is a thing, and I'm still wet behind the ears no doubt. My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be. Still, I attached the recording of the culprit part and maybe you can tell me if I was overplaying or not (it's only me so it's lacking context, I know).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's jarring because while I'm not interested in playing solos or lead or whatever I still look up to players like Chris Squire and Geddy Lee and want to play cool stuff and groove my ass off. And well, it's my band. So, TB, am I being overly ambitious? Have you had a similar experience? Should I try to find a middle ground or should I try to look somewhere else?

Thanks for indulging in my unnecessarily long story, looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[ArtechnikA]

as no-context lines go, it didn't seem too busy.
but line that up with a click and tell me if you think the timing is consistent.
bass is not boring, when done right, although there are basslines that do not vary -at all- over the course of a song.
check out 'your love has lifted me higher' for an example.
But that's just one song.
There's 2 kinds of timing -- straight time, and swing time. And bits of syncopation that can add spice to either.
But notes that occur at random intervals is some flavor of experimental music most can't relate to.
Nail the timing before experimenting with note choice...

Sunshine Of Your Love, BTW, is just a blues scale, played backwards....

 

[basseux]

'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is."

Your timing isn't good enough for your friend skills.
With your current skills, the only way you can get a good timing is to simplify things and focus on timing.
He basically anticipated that you would find this boring, although his statement is of course wrong, bass isn't boring.

At least not more than what a drummer would think of the drums if you tell him to stop being all over over the place.

It was a way to get you the message.

 

[haybik_gibon_31]

Point taken, thanks. I obviously try to play on time obviously and it didn't sound off time at the time of playing but I'm not the person to judge.

 

[AceOfBassFace]

Your tone is solid, nut hard to tell without hearing it in context with the drums. Try sticking to lines you know you can execute 100% and work up from there.

 

[ChrisB2]

"You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is."

F that. Your "friend" is being a jerk. This isn't covers, you can do whatever you want. Now, of course the music you all create has to be congruent, but that is BS and I wouldn't stand for that nonsense one minute.

told me I had to learn to walk before I could run

Blow it out your ear, drummer buddy.

"ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that.

Well now you've gone passive-aggressive, which is the wrong course IMO. Just have a straight talk with him and say what you want out of the project. If you two can't see eye to eye, you may have to find another outlet. But don't lay down for his BS.

Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Yeah, of course. That explains it. A lot of people want you to play what THEY want you to play, to serve their own egotistical purposes. Just firm up a little and do what you want.

As to your sample line, I didn't think your timing was off at all. Syncopated, yes, but IMO it's just fine and groovy. Not my style of music, but nothing at all wrong with it. Your drummer needs to go drink a tall glass of STFU.

 

[Watchootognbout]

A common attitude.
Every other member of the band knows your job better than you do.

 

[DWBass]

The recording wasn't long enough to gauge how much business was going on.

 

[BrassedOn]

Better than my recent conversation with a drummer.

Me: The drum is getting a bit loud, I can’t hear the keys.”
Drummer: Whaaat???

 

[gln1955]

Your first time playing with a drummer, you could do worse than just playing some covers. There will be plenty of time to do your creative thing once you two, and anyone else you jam with, start to gel.

 

[Grinderman]

Your timing isn't good enough for your friend skills.
With your current skills, the only way you can get a good timing is to simplify things and focus on timing.
He basically anticipated that you would find this boring, although his statement is of course wrong, bass isn't boring.

At least not more than what a drummer would think of the drums if you tell him to stop being all over over the place.

It was a way to get you the message.

Maybe. Based on what? Where's the information or context to make such a diagnosis?

I could just as well say my instincts are that I'd rather hear what the OP did played with fingers instead of a pick... and that would also be 100% my subjective opinion. It doesn't mean squat because there is nothing else going on with it--no other instrumentation or vocals--there's virtually nothing for me to base an articulable critique on.

P.S. My first cousin is a drummer from Toronto but he lives in Hamilton currently. (OP shows Toronto locality)

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I like your playing. Gonna need work, but we all do. Those fills were a little...busy. but imaginative! I agreed with F the drummer. But woodshed, and get those fills to articulate a tad more. Bravo!

 

[themickster]

Hi bass friends,

I was rather jarred with a conversation I've had with my friend who plays drums with me, and I'm here for some advice.

For a bit of context, I've been "playing" musical instruments (started with violin, through keys, guitar and settled on bass) for a loong time but never had the discipline to practice seriously and get my chops up and be able to reliably play more than 2 pieces in their entirety without slipping up. 6 months ago something clicked and I've started taking it really seriously, practicing/playing 2-3 hours every day.

I put together a group of friends who had similar yet different enough tastes to make our own music. My goal isn't to get up and running playing gigs, I have a day job (much respect to those who do both of them). What I'm really interested in is creating something with my friends on our own pace, having a good time and pouring my heart and soul into it.

My drummer is a seasoned musician, much better chops and a lot of experience but has stagnated over the years not really having any incentive to push himself.

Finally the story: I've finally gotten around to arranging a jam session with him after quite some time and I was stoked to play with a real drummer and not a click track. I said let's jam to some i-v-iv and warm up and started just playing just some root notes. After a while I got bored so started throwing in some sixteenth note fills, flourishes, whatever you want to call it. Nothing crazy, I'm not Jaco, Sheehan, Geddy; I'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." And asked if I knew how to play Sunshine of Your Love or Are You Gonna Be My Girl (lol) and told me I had to learn to walk before I could run. Now I really respect those artists and I greatly admire Jack Bruce, but as I said playing covers is not something I'm interested in. I learn them on my own time (I've been going through Shadows of Motown) and play to the recordings but I want to create. I was rather taken aback and said "ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that. Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Now I know overplaying is a thing, and I'm still wet behind the ears no doubt. My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be. Still, I attached the recording of the culprit part and maybe you can tell me if I was overplaying or not (it's only me so it's lacking context, I know).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's jarring because while I'm not interested in playing solos or lead or whatever I still look up to players like Chris Squire and Geddy Lee and want to play cool stuff and groove my ass off. And well, it's my band. So, TB, am I being overly ambitious? Have you had a similar experience? Should I try to find a middle ground or should I try to look somewhere else?

Thanks for indulging in my unnecessarily long story, looking forward to hearing from you.

You say what notes to play, not anyone else. Does this drummer keep to boring beats? The worse critics can't do it themselves. Let the twerp listen to Geddy Lee and James Jamerson, to name two. What about the many walking basslines? Tell him to stick to kick snare kick snare on every song. A bassline can be complex and still drive the song.

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

The drummer needs to lighten up. It’s not like you have a gig set up tomorrow. You’re just messing around. One of the best ways to learn is to explore. If he’s all that good, he should be able to work around you.

 

[ChrisB2]

Tell him to stick to kick snare kick snare on every song.

Eh, I'd give him "kick snare, kick-kick snare" two songs per set.

 

[Lowendtech]

P.S. My first cousin is a drummer from Toronto but he lives in Hamilton currently

Is he any good? Hamilton is kinda close to me.

OP, you do you. Figure out what you want to say on your instrument. Practice it lots (with a metronome) and then stuff it in his ear holes.
As long as you are playing in time, the drummer should be able to work with you

 

[Al T.]

Time to fire the drummer !

 

[rickdog]

Bass is not a boring instrument. If the drummer thinks it is (or should be), I agree with "fire the drummer."

That said, a bass part has to groove whether it's simple or complex. It's hard to tell in the short clip you shared, but I didn't quite feel the groove. It might have come through more in context with a drummer, hard to say.

Keep in mind that "syncopation" doesn't mean just "play the note a little bit early (or late)", it's still in time - lands on an eighth or sixteenth note that's not on the beat. One of my heroes in this respect is Phil Lesh - he can carry a groove even in a wildly improvisational and syncopated part. Talk about not boring!

I spend a fair amount of my practice time jamming with Mr. Metronome. He's very forgiving and not judgemental, never tells me I should be boring, but makes it very clear when I'm not grooving.

 

[haybik_gibon_31]

Maybe. Based on what? Where's the information or context to make such a diagnosis?

I could just as well say my instincts are that I'd rather hear what the OP did played with fingers instead of a pick... and that would also be 100% my subjective opinion. It doesn't mean squat because there is nothing else going on with it--no other instrumentation or vocals--there's virtually nothing for me to base an articulable critique on.

P.S. My first cousin is a drummer from Toronto but he lives in Hamilton currently. (OP shows Toronto locality)

Funnily enough I normally play with a pick but I'm playing with my fingers here. I appreciate the comments, I'm just gonna go woodshed now!

 

[Grinderman]

Is he any good? Hamilton is kinda close to me.

OP, you do you. Figure out what you want to say on your instrument. Practice it lots (with a metronome) and then stuff it in his ear holes.
As long as you are playing in time, the drummer should be able to work with you

I was being kind of facetious. Seems a touchy thing to me.

Truth is I don't know enough to qualify how good he is. We've never played together. He's much younger than me and there's a lot of geographic distance between us. I'll tell you that he's the type who was very evidently likely to be making music since he was a kid. He studied sound recording/engineering at university and he's probably been playing in bands in the area for at least 10 years.

Beyond that, philosophically, I'm uncomfortable with seriously touting or endorsing a close relative for something of this nature. He'd have to thoroughly convince me he's amazing for me to maybe do that and I'm a tough grader. I also don't want to say too much or violate my cousin's privacy here either.

Fair enough?