Conversation I've had with my drummer

[Grinderman]

Funnily enough I normally play with a pick but I'm playing with my fingers here. I appreciate the comments, I'm just gonna go woodshed now!

Really? Damn, that sample sure fooled me but it also supports the point I was trying to make.

 

[bherman]

I play with a drummer who is quite unusual. He's a full-time percussion teacher and a very busy performing musician. He also sings well and has near-perfect pitch, which means hes often correcting one of our guitar players when they hit a note that's slightly off. Sometimes he plays simply, sometimes he way overplays. But he's never off-tempo. His biggest gripe about bass players is when they don't lock in with the drummer. Bass and drums set the rythym more than anything - beyond the basics is fine, as long as you don't lose the tempo.

There's a local bass player (two, actually) that make me cringe when I listen to them. When they play fills, sometimes fairly impressive ones, they're often just off the beat, and it kills the feel of the song.

So here's my point. I think that your guy is out of line to say that bass is boring. What I would say is that as bass players, we need to be 100% on-tempo, and i think that if you lined up your sample track with a metronome you'd see that you're off at some points.

I agree with others that practice with a metronome is the way to get at this. And not just playing along with tunes, but drills. One of my favorite is a book called "Bass Fitness", by Josquin Des Pres. They're intended to help with dexterity, but also have the benefit of increasing precision. I don't use it as much now (but should), I find it useful to spend 15 minutes on stuff like that to get your left and right hands (and brain) in lock step.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I’m going to guess the drummer thought you were going out of time, which you were, it's called rubato, nothing wrong with that, right from the beginning, and then did again the same way so we know it is intentional, but maybe he did not pick up on it. Beyond that: You need to expand your vocabulary. You don't want to play the hits? Excellent! But you oughta listen to them, they have things to teach you.

 

[haybik_gibon_31]

I play with a drummer who is quite unusual. He's a full-time percussion teacher and a very busy performing musician. He also sings well and has near-perfect pitch, which means hes often correcting one of our guitar players when they hit a note that's slightly off. Sometimes he plays simply, sometimes he way overplays. But he's never off-tempo. His biggest gripe about bass players is when they don't lock in with the drummer. Bass and drums set the rythym more than anything - beyond the basics is fine, as long as you don't lose the tempo.

There's a local bass player (two, actually) that make me cringe when I listen to them. When they play fills, sometimes fairly impressive ones, they're often just off the beat, and it kills the feel of the song.

So here's my point. I think that your guy is out of line to say that bass is boring. What I would say is that as bass players, we need to be 100% on-tempo, and i think that if you lined up your sample track with a metronome you'd see that you're off at some points.

I agree with others that practice with a metronome is the way to get at this. And not just playing along with tunes, but drills. One of my favorite is a book called "Bass Fitness", by Josquin Des Pres. They're intended to help with dexterity, but also have the benefit of increasing precision. I don't use it as much now (but should), I find it useful to spend 15 minutes on stuff like that to get your left and right hands (and brain) in lock step.

That book is EXACTLY what I was looking for, thanks a lot!

 

[haybik_gibon_31]

I’m going to guess the drummer thought you were going out of time, which you were, it's called rubato, nothing wrong with that, right from the beginning, and then did again the same way so we know it is intentional, but maybe he did not pick up on it. Beyond that: You need to expand your vocabulary. You don't want to play the hits? Excellent! But you oughta listen to them, they have things to teach you.

Yeah I was hitting (well, trying to hit) a dead note on the beat with the first sixteenth after that being the first note I was actually playing but around the recording time I stopped playing the dead note and just started playing the second sixteenth in the beat instead. Maybe that's why I got the grilling

 

[2thAche]

A drummer who thinks bass is /should be boring is a pretty big problem IMO. What music does this guy listen to? Def Leppard?

As far as the clip, sounds tame to me, but no musical context so...

 

[mambo4]

but line that up with a click and tell me if you think the timing is consistent.

Yeah, listening to the clip I agree.

The drummer heard you missing the beats when you "explored"
so he said "you're exploring too much"
in stead of "simplify and pay attention to your timing"

 

[Lowendtech]

I was being kind of facetious. Seems a touchy thing to me.

Truth is I don't know enough to qualify how good he is. We've never played together. He's much younger than me and there's a lot of geographic distance between us. I'll tell you that he's the type who was very evidently likely to be making music since he was a kid. He studied sound recording/engineering at university and he's probably been playing in bands in the area for at least 10 years.

Beyond that, philosophically, I'm uncomfortable with seriously touting or endorsing a close relative for something of this nature. He'd have to thoroughly convince me he's amazing for me to maybe do that and I'm a tough grader. I also don't want to say too much or violate my cousin's privacy here either.

Fair enough?

Fair enough. I’m always on the hunt for a good drummer so my ears perked up.

 

[azureblue]

your drummer is trying to tell you you don't have good time and good groove. The recording makes that very plain. You need to back up, learn how to stay in the pocket. Get a program like garage band, and play along with it, using their AI drummer, and hear how well you lock in. GB will show you how good your time is. The first thing you have to be is rock solid.

I give you "Sussudio" - very simple drum pattern against a sequenced (but playable on electric bass because I've played song enough to be half sick of it) bass part. Vs, "wind machine" Drums at 320BPM, vs walking 4/4 bass.

 

[bherman]

That book is EXACTLY what I was looking for, thanks a lot!

Great - you'll curse me at first, then thank me. It starts out simple but will kick your butt (in a good way). When I first worked my way through this material, I learned that slow and methodical was the best. I'd stick with 2 pgs at most, start at 60-80 bpm, and repeat it every day until I could pick up some speed, but accuracy is more important. Then move on to the next 2 pgs. Go up the neck 1/2 step at a time until you reach the 12th (octave) fret with your first finger, then come back down 1/2 step at a time. Over a few months, you'll see major benefits. It's like doing pushups for your fingers!

 

[themickster]

Hi bass friends,

I was rather jarred with a conversation I've had with my friend who plays drums with me, and I'm here for some advice.

For a bit of context, I've been "playing" musical instruments (started with violin, through keys, guitar and settled on bass) for a loong time but never had the discipline to practice seriously and get my chops up and be able to reliably play more than 2 pieces in their entirety without slipping up. 6 months ago something clicked and I've started taking it really seriously, practicing/playing 2-3 hours every day.

I put together a group of friends who had similar yet different enough tastes to make our own music. My goal isn't to get up and running playing gigs, I have a day job (much respect to those who do both of them). What I'm really interested in is creating something with my friends on our own pace, having a good time and pouring my heart and soul into it.

My drummer is a seasoned musician, much better chops and a lot of experience but has stagnated over the years not really having any incentive to push himself.

Finally the story: I've finally gotten around to arranging a jam session with him after quite some time and I was stoked to play with a real drummer and not a click track. I said let's jam to some i-v-iv and warm up and started just playing just some root notes. After a while I got bored so started throwing in some sixteenth note fills, flourishes, whatever you want to call it. Nothing crazy, I'm not Jaco, Sheehan, Geddy; I'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." And asked if I knew how to play Sunshine of Your Love or Are You Gonna Be My Girl (lol) and told me I had to learn to walk before I could run. Now I really respect those artists and I greatly admire Jack Bruce, but as I said playing covers is not something I'm interested in. I learn them on my own time (I've been going through Shadows of Motown) and play to the recordings but I want to create. I was rather taken aback and said "ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that. Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Now I know overplaying is a thing, and I'm still wet behind the ears no doubt. My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be. Still, I attached the recording of the culprit part and maybe you can tell me if I was overplaying or not (it's only me so it's lacking context, I know).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's jarring because while I'm not interested in playing solos or lead or whatever I still look up to players like Chris Squire and Geddy Lee and want to play cool stuff and groove my ass off. And well, it's my band. So, TB, am I being overly ambitious? Have you had a similar experience? Should I try to find a middle ground or should I try to look somewhere else?

Thanks for indulging in my unnecessarily long story, looking forward to hearing from you.

I've now listened to your groove. I'd say that the flourishes might be too fast for the beat. Instead of, say, 16ths try 8ths. BassBuzz on YouTube does some great teaching.

I still think your drummer's wrong.

 

[Rojd]

Better than my recent conversation with a drummer.

Me: The drum is getting a bit loud, I can’t hear the keys.”
Drummer: Whaaat???

 

[haybik_gibon_31]

I've now listened to your groove. I'd say that the flourishes might be too fast for the beat. Instead of, say, 16ths try 8ths. BassBuzz on YouTube does some great teaching.

I still think your drummer's wrong.

Yeah I kinda regret posting the clip, not because I dislike the criticism, it's true, but I feel like it took away from the point. I wouldn't come here to complain because my drummer told me I was out of time, and he does, which is great. But that wasn't what was said and I thought it was an indicator of a fundamental discrepancy in our understanding of music. I guess I had to learn drummer-speak!

 

[pglaser01]

Perhaps you should give a listen to some more jazz-style influences and see where that takes you?

 

[overit]

Based on your story alone, your drummer friend probably could have used better words but I get what he is saying. I couldn’t feel the groove in your sample, so to me it did seem like overplaying or being too busy rather than grooving, which is probably what your friend wanted to do.

 

[basseux]

Maybe. Based on what? Where's the information or context to make such a diagnosis?

I could just as well say my instincts are that I'd rather hear what the OP did played with fingers instead of a pick... and that would also be 100% my subjective opinion. It doesn't mean squat because there is nothing else going on with it--no other instrumentation or vocals--there's virtually nothing for me to base an articulable critique on.

P.S. My first cousin is a drummer from Toronto but he lives in Hamilton currently. (OP shows Toronto locality)

Isolated bass shouldn't need drums and context to stand on it's own legs.

At least that's what I aim for when I practice and listen my isolated track.

The drummer who is more seasoned than him explicitely asked him more precision.
This is not a particularly out of bounds query.
Only stupid part was saying bass is boring.

 

[Pirate Captain]

Bass "can" be a boring instrument...but at least it IS an instrument

that said, getting rhythmically accurate on an instrument that IS very much the heart of the band (some notable exceptions aside) is key.

 

[Grinderman]

Isolated bass shouldn't need drums and context to stand on it's own legs.

At least that's what I aim for when I practice and listen my isolated track.

The drummer who is more seasoned than him explicitely asked him more precision.
This is not a particularly out of bounds query.
Only stupid part was saying bass is boring.

Bull, you flatly said the OP's timing isn't good.

That's unfounded, and not constructive. There's no metric for us to measure their timing by. It's also too short, there's no internal rhythmic reference points like there would be if they played that part in a loop or even within half of a complete song. It would be equally invalid for me to judge your timing as not good.

You may not like their playing in the sample but that is merely your subjective opinion which you're entitled to, but you're also couching your opinion with supposition where you say "explicitely [sic] asked him more precision".

The OP said no such thing in their account of what happened. The drummer said, according to the OP, "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." The OP admitted, "My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be." These statements do not = timing not good.

It's not even clear that the sample the OP provided is literally from what they were playing at the time this happened with the drummer in question. He could play that part again with a rhythm track or a drummer then we can better judge how tight or loose they're playing.

Maybe you're that drummer, you were there?

 

[BassBrass]

Hi bass friends,

I was rather jarred with a conversation I've had with my friend who plays drums with me, and I'm here for some advice.

For a bit of context, I've been "playing" musical instruments (started with violin, through keys, guitar and settled on bass) for a loong time but never had the discipline to practice seriously and get my chops up and be able to reliably play more than 2 pieces in their entirety without slipping up. 6 months ago something clicked and I've started taking it really seriously, practicing/playing 2-3 hours every day.

I put together a group of friends who had similar yet different enough tastes to make our own music. My goal isn't to get up and running playing gigs, I have a day job (much respect to those who do both of them). What I'm really interested in is creating something with my friends on our own pace, having a good time and pouring my heart and soul into it.

My drummer is a seasoned musician, much better chops and a lot of experience but has stagnated over the years not really having any incentive to push himself.

Finally the story: I've finally gotten around to arranging a jam session with him after quite some time and I was stoked to play with a real drummer and not a click track. I said let's jam to some i-v-iv and warm up and started just playing just some root notes. After a while I got bored so started throwing in some sixteenth note fills, flourishes, whatever you want to call it. Nothing crazy, I'm not Jaco, Sheehan, Geddy; I'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." And asked if I knew how to play Sunshine of Your Love or Are You Gonna Be My Girl (lol) and told me I had to learn to walk before I could run. Now I really respect those artists and I greatly admire Jack Bruce, but as I said playing covers is not something I'm interested in. I learn them on my own time (I've been going through Shadows of Motown) and play to the recordings but I want to create. I was rather taken aback and said "ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that. Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Now I know overplaying is a thing, and I'm still wet behind the ears no doubt. My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be. Still, I attached the recording of the culprit part and maybe you can tell me if I was overplaying or not (it's only me so it's lacking context, I know).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's jarring because while I'm not interested in playing solos or lead or whatever I still look up to players like Chris Squire and Geddy Lee and want to play cool stuff and groove my ass off. And well, it's my band. So, TB, am I being overly ambitious? Have you had a similar experience? Should I try to find a middle ground or should I try to look somewhere else?

Thanks for indulging in my unnecessarily long story, looking forward to hearing from you.

On this clip, your pocket needs to be twice as deep. The rhythm is ok, it is just surfacy, Not FELT. Your not vibrating the string much either. In my opinion. HOWEVER the drummer has an attitude I wouldn't enjoy and is probably an obsticle. You need what ever you want in your sandbox. Then hit it. or as people here like to say, disgustingly, play the snot out of it.

 

[JRA]

Hi bass friends,

I was rather jarred with a conversation I've had with my friend who plays drums with me, and I'm here for some advice.

For a bit of context, I've been "playing" musical instruments (started with violin, through keys, guitar and settled on bass) for a loong time but never had the discipline to practice seriously and get my chops up and be able to reliably play more than 2 pieces in their entirety without slipping up. 6 months ago something clicked and I've started taking it really seriously, practicing/playing 2-3 hours every day.

I put together a group of friends who had similar yet different enough tastes to make our own music. My goal isn't to get up and running playing gigs, I have a day job (much respect to those who do both of them). What I'm really interested in is creating something with my friends on our own pace, having a good time and pouring my heart and soul into it.

My drummer is a seasoned musician, much better chops and a lot of experience but has stagnated over the years not really having any incentive to push himself.

Finally the story: I've finally gotten around to arranging a jam session with him after quite some time and I was stoked to play with a real drummer and not a click track. I said let's jam to some i-v-iv and warm up and started just playing just some root notes. After a while I got bored so started throwing in some sixteenth note fills, flourishes, whatever you want to call it. Nothing crazy, I'm not Jaco, Sheehan, Geddy; I'm just trying to groove. After a few repeats the drummer stops and tells me "You're trying to explore too much. Bass is supposed to be the foundation. Bass is a boring instrument, it is what it is." And asked if I knew how to play Sunshine of Your Love or Are You Gonna Be My Girl (lol) and told me I had to learn to walk before I could run. Now I really respect those artists and I greatly admire Jack Bruce, but as I said playing covers is not something I'm interested in. I learn them on my own time (I've been going through Shadows of Motown) and play to the recordings but I want to create. I was rather taken aback and said "ok I'm playing quarter root notes from now on" and did exactly that. Meanwhile he's playing his sick nasty drum fills over my bassline.

Now I know overplaying is a thing, and I'm still wet behind the ears no doubt. My playing isn't anywhere as tight as I want it to be. Still, I attached the recording of the culprit part and maybe you can tell me if I was overplaying or not (it's only me so it's lacking context, I know).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's jarring because while I'm not interested in playing solos or lead or whatever I still look up to players like Chris Squire and Geddy Lee and want to play cool stuff and groove my ass off. And well, it's my band. So, TB, am I being overly ambitious? Have you had a similar experience? Should I try to find a middle ground or should I try to look somewhere else?

Thanks for indulging in my unnecessarily long story, looking forward to hearing from you.

not sure what you're looking for --- you know your part could be better and your drummer was telling you that in a stupid-drummer way. if he knows what he's talking about (i.e., in general, most of the time) = listen, absorb, practice, and deliver. crawl > walk > run good luck!