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Coping with mediocrity...

One thing I found made a dramatic, almost immediate increase in my right-hand speed was that I started practicing "flicking" the string, hitting it on both the down and up strokes of my finger. I did this with my index and middle -- I only pluck with those. I don't PLAY like this, understand. I just practice it. I think that exercising in both directions strengthens muscles that you don't work as hard playing only one way.

It also forced me to be more precise in how I attacked the string, and it's led me into a whole exploration of different ways to strike the strings. I'm more articulate and much faster now.

The exercise I do is to just flick a string with one finger, building up speed until I reach a steady beat, and seeing how long I can do it until I get tired. I got results right away, like as soon as I stopped doing it I did a few experimental plucks, and I could tell I had a whole new idea of how to do it. After about a week of this, I had this almost micrometer-precise feel compared to what I had been doing before.

And this has been about 2 months that I've been doing this now. I feel like there is quite a bit left to grow with this approach.
 
Thanks everybody for your input. There's some interesting ideas here.

I do like the idea of putting away the metronome. I've been trying to play the bassline to the quicker guitar solo is Zeppelin's Dazed and Confused (which is fifteen 16th notes in a row at roughly 84 BPM, repeated for a minute or so) and I can get somewhat close to doing it after I've worked myself up to it, but I know the melody and don't need to count, I just play along. But if I try to play 1/16ths at 84 on its own, I focus too much on counting and am nowhere near accomplishing it. I guess I will just focus on learning songs and choosing harder and harder ones rather than just pounding away on an open string at a certain BPM.
Exactly. What I've discovered with speed drilling (with a little prodding from Jeff Berlin) is that you can get really fast with the speed drills, but they have nothing to do with putting your fingers in the right places for songs. You still have to develop your muscle memory for specific lines you may play, so might as well just proceed directly to the music.

I used to rake every time, but there was a great thread a while ago where JimmyM made some very good points towards strictly alternating, and since then I've tried removing raking from my technique altogether. I have noticed an increase in speed since doing so, but the odd time I still catch myself raking, so I should focus on eliminating that as well.
:bassist:

I'm glad you're finding the strict alternating thing working for you. It'll work for everyone like that, too, even the ones who do the most objecting to it ;)
 
Maybe aim a little lower than professional musicians who have spent their lives crafting their art, compose music that fit their skills, and have (had) the advantage of multiple studio takes to get it just right (if not complete studio magic a la Steely dan).

Heck, I am jealous of 16 yr old girls on You Tube that make bass playing look like childs play. I can't get a non-rattling tone! Post some sound clips and I'll be jealous of YOU too. It's all relative.

It's the journey, not the destination.
 
Title says it all.

I think I've had about enough of trying to play fast. Since I've started to play 4.5 years ago, I've struggled to play anything faster than 16ths @ 80 BPM.
Can you tell us specifically which exercises you do to increase speed? I mean other than trying to play riffs or parts you lifted and trying to increase speed that way, with or without a metronome.
 
Can you tell us specifically which exercises you do to increase speed? I mean other than trying to play riffs or parts you lifted and trying to increase speed that way, with or without a metronome.

Well other than trying to play riffs and increasing speed, the main thing that I do is play scales at 1/16th notes and increase the tempo, or I just play 1/16th notes at a tempo that I can pull off for several minutes and then the next day I'll start at that tempo for a minute, and then speed up the tempo a notch and play that until I do it well, and then bump it again in the same fashion.

Edit to add: something I should mention, is that when I alternate my two fingers, my index comes back to starting position (after a downstroke) like a pendulum, just moves back and forth over the string, but the middle finger doesn't move like this: it actually moves in these circular movements (like Sonic the hedgehog's legs in sonic 2). I do think this is crippling my speed a little. The funny thing is that if I play with only my middle finger, it moves back and forth like the index does. It's only when both fingers are in action that this happens. I'm curious as to whether it's because the middle is longer than the index and it does this to compensate. I'm also curious if others have noticed this with their playing as well. Also, I can control this at slower speeds, but once I get to about 70, the circular movement on the middle finger comes back in.
 
Amateurs practice until they get it right. Pros practice until they can't get it wrong


Now that is a nice quote ... and really hits home with me. I need to change some of my practice habits.


and to the original poster ... I feel ya man. 2 years back at it only 1 year seriously. There are many many things i can't play as a result of my lack of current abilities. but these guys are spot on ... i got guitar pro... the slow down ability has gotten me over the hump for challenging songs whe the band wants to push my abilities
 
Well other than trying to play riffs and increasing speed, the main thing that I do is play scales at 1/16th notes and increase the tempo, or I just play 1/16th notes at a tempo that I can pull off for several minutes and then the next day I'll start at that tempo for a minute, and then speed up the tempo a notch and play that until I do it well, and then bump it again in the same fashion.
Sent you a PM
 
To the OP, do you count rhythms in the standard way in your head when you play? 1-e-and-a, or something similar?

16ths at 80 bpm breaks down to 320 bits of rhythm that you can say in your head in a minute. Most people can only read at a rate of 300-350 wpm because they say each word in their head as they read. I don't think that is coincidence that those numbers are so close together. Speed reading techniques are all about learning to break that habit and it is not easy if you've been reading for a long time.

I counted rhythms like that from the beginning, it has become such a habit that I don't really notice that I do it. I prefer to work with etudes and such for technique/melody type stuff rather than straight scales and I found that when I work them with a metronome, I can bog down around 16ths @ 85 bpm, I suspect that the above is the reason why. I've learned and played songs that were faster than that, so what was the difference? I learned those by playing along with a recording, no counting or thinking, just repeating what I heard. As Mellow said, don't think, feel.

So, I programmed a few of the etudes I work with into a midi sequencer and ran them just faster than I could play them with the metronome and sure enough I was able to keep up and break the barrier of 16ths @ 85 bpm when I started just hearing and repeating it at that speed. I think part of the problem arises from the stress that you put yourself under by trying to count it faster than you can do it in your head, you just have to let it go and feel/hear it faster than you can count it.
 
Try snare on two and four tracks. Really improved my precision with sixteenths. I have been playing about five years now and about year four I felt almost exactly like you and at the same bpm. I talked to the guy from how to play bass dot com. He suggested I stop relying on the metronome for where one is. It made a huge difference very quickly.

I am good to 100bpm now give our take with snare on two only and a kick every four measures on one.
 
Three things come to mind:

First, it's not how many years you've been playing, but how many hours. Berklee students can log upwards of 10,000 hours of playing time in 4.5 years. Most amateur players will be lucky to log 1/10 of that. And the Berklee students are spending the vast majority of that time engaged in a disciplined course of study and practice. Amateurs tend to have irregular and poorly constructed practice habits by comparison. But education aside, don't judge yourself too harshly against people who have 10x the playing experience.

Second, instead of Rushing to keep up with Geddy (get it?), make Geddy slow down to meet you. If you don't have it already, get yourself a program called Amazing Slowdowner (or some equivalent program that lets you change the tempo of any audio file without altering the pitch) and practice your favorite songs at a tempo you can manage until you are playing them perfectly. Do NOT advance the tempo until you are playing the parts perfectly and you can play them perfectly without the backing track. How do you know if you're playing them perfectly? Record your practice sessions and listen back to them.

Third, in 99% of musical situations time is far more important than speed. Not just having the ability to play with a click, but having an internal metronome that knows how to play in time and, perhaps more importantly, how to calibrate to (or "lock-in" with) the other musicians. That is much more valuable than any lick you'll learn on 2112.
 
To the OP, do you count rhythms in the standard way in your head when you play? 1-e-and-a, or something similar?

16ths at 80 bpm breaks down to 320 bits of rhythm that you can say in your head in a minute. Most people can only read at a rate of 300-350 wpm because they say each word in their head as they read. I don't think that is coincidence that those numbers are so close together. Speed reading techniques are all about learning to break that habit and it is not easy if you've been reading for a long time.

Try snare on two and four tracks. Really improved my precision with sixteenths. I have been playing about five years now and about year four I felt almost exactly like you and at the same bpm. I talked to the guy from how to play bass dot com. He suggested I stop relying on the metronome for where one is. It made a huge difference very quickly.

Thanks a lot Geoff and RPSands. I do count like 1-e-and-a, 2-e-and-a, etc. and I do use the click of the metronome as the 1. As for counting every 1/16th (1-e-and-a), I always wondered if that was part of my issues. Very similar to what you posted Geoff about the etudes and stuff you could play and how I can play the quicker part to Dazed and Confused but can't play that speed while counting. But your post has confirmed this to me. Also RPSands, I never even thought of that, and it does make a lot of sense. If I essentially played only 1/8ths instead of 1/16ths, I wouldn't have to worry as much about counting.

I have heard of the classic, "to play fast, count slow." I guess it's time to see if there's any merit behind it.

Three things come to mind:

First, it's not how many years you've been playing, but how many hours. Berklee students can log upwards of 10,000 hours of playing time in 4.5 years. Most amateur players will be lucky to log 1/10 of that. And the Berklee students are spending the vast majority of that time engaged in a disciplined course of study and practice. Amateurs tend to have irregular and poorly constructed practice habits by comparison. But education aside, don't judge yourself too harshly against people who have 10x the playing experience.

Second, instead of Rushing to keep up with Geddy (get it?), make Geddy slow down to meet you. If you don't have it already, get yourself a program called Amazing Slowdowner (or some equivalent program that lets you change the tempo of any audio file without altering the pitch) and practice your favorite songs at a tempo you can manage until you are playing them perfectly. Do NOT advance the tempo until you are playing the parts perfectly and you can play them perfectly without the backing track. How do you know if you're playing them perfectly? Record your practice sessions and listen back to them.

Third, in 99% of musical situations time is far more important than speed. Not just having the ability to play with a click, but having an internal metronome that knows how to play in time and, perhaps more importantly, how to calibrate to (or "lock-in" with) the other musicians. That is much more valuable than any lick you'll learn on 2112.

And thanks Testing1Two, in regards to your first post, I don't practice as much as I'd like to. My life seems to be too packed, but I'm working on taking measures to freeing up some more time. But you're right, I shouldn't be comparing myself to someone who has played a lot longer than I have, regardless of years I've been "playing".

For your second post, that's a great idea. I will get some sort of software that does this.

And for your final point, thankfully I do have a good sense of timing. I've been playing in a bunch of jam sessions lately where I've been thrown in with a bunch of musicians that I've never played with before, and I always get a compliment or two from the drummer about how we're locking together. Those are the best compliments, and I'm glad that I'm not having those issues.

Again, everyone, I can't thank you enough for your input. Some really good things put in this entire thread... I nominate it to be stickied!
 
You've got a mental block going on. You CAN play fast, everyone can. Check out this video by Adam Nitti, he gives a great example of what I'm talking about and exercises to help overcome this:

Bass Videos featuring Premiere Video Content from the Bass Community - BassPlayer.com


It happens to me all the time, I've been trying to learn this Gary Willis solo, almost everytime I come to what I think is a difficult part I tense up because I begin overthink it and I'm expecting this difficult passage. What happens is that I tense up, subconsciously. There've been a few times however that I'm not thinking about it or in a conversation with my wife and BAM I nail it note for note at tempo. I CAN play it, I just have the expectation that it's very difficult and I tense up as a result of it. I don't know if that makes any sense but check out that video. Unlike me it makes a lot of sense and it's helped me improve my speed.
 
You've got a mental block going on. You CAN play fast, everyone can. Check out this video by Adam Nitti, he gives a great example of what I'm talking about and exercises to help overcome this:

Bass Videos featuring Premiere Video Content from the Bass Community - BassPlayer.com


It happens to me all the time, I've been trying to learn this Gary Willis solo, almost everytime I come to what I think is a difficult part I tense up because I begin overthink it and I'm expecting this difficult passage. What happens is that I tense up, subconsciously. There've been a few times however that I'm not thinking about it or in a conversation with my wife and BAM I nail it note for note at tempo. I CAN play it, I just have the expectation that it's very difficult and I tense up as a result of it. I don't know if that makes any sense but check out that video. Unlike me it makes a lot of sense and it's helped me improve my speed.

That's awesome... It actually gives me a better understanding of something that happened a week or so ago. For the last couple of weeks I had been playing with a one-finger-flick method (like what Max posted about), and during this time I spent a lot it playing songs that I had a very hard time with when I'd alternate pluck. But with the one-finger-flick technique these songs became so easy, and after time, I didn't panic or worry or even try that hard when I'd get to these parts because I now found them easy to do.

Well, one day I broke a nail and decided it's time to go back to the good ol' alternating plucking, which I preferred anyway for feel and tone, but I tried playing these songs, and because I was used to playing them with such ease, I didn't panic or worry or even try that hard when I got there even with the alternating plucking method and for the first time in a long time, I was able to play them with the alternating plucking technique. I quickly lost that because I started to remember that they used to be hard and so they became hard, and this is when I started this thread. I didn't understand it at the time, and until this post, I thought it had a lot to with Max's post and that he's on to something with practicing the one-finger-flick, but now I realize that it may be a combination of both: that technique does help with gaining speed on the upstroke and a good feel for where to put your fingers, but it can also makes the quick parts feel easier to play and you'll be more ready to tackle them when you switch back to alternating plucking.

And a tip about watching that Adam Nitti video, if anyone is interested. When the video ends, keep the browser there, it will automatically load up the next video where he continues to talk about this very thing.
 
IT'S ALL MENTAL!!!!

I just finished from playing a whole bunch of songs that I've been struggling with for the last year or two. I started off with ones that I can sometimes nail, and as I approached the hard parts, I gave my self reasons to believe that I could do it and I remained calm and continued to somewhat dance and enjoy playing the song. I flew through the hard parts like it was soothing. Then I went to some songs that I've never really been able to nail and played them the best I had. And when I found a part that gave me trouble, I'd turn on the metronome and slow it down a tad and realized I wasn't playing it cleanly at the slower speed.. All I need to do is practice those parts a bit at slower speeds and I'll play them no problem.

Yeah, I'm really not going to do many more speed drills, LOL. It completely limits me, because I start believing that I can only play 16ths @ 80 BPM, when in reality, I can play faster than that. Really all of your guys tips helped. Even the counting limited me, because I couldn't count as fast as I wanted to play and I relied top heavily on a metronome and counting.... No more! Time to pick some songs I want to learn to play, slow them down and figure it out. I will still do some one-finger-flick exercises, and a little thing that Adam Nitti showed in the video that Henry posted and maybe combine those with something that Nick is sending me, but those are really just to keep my fingers moving and keep them agile as well as getting a better sense of feel. But I'm not relying on those to know how fast I'm going... As long as I'm confident and calm and practice the parts, I'll play them well.

Thanks again,

Matt
 
Can I have a link to JimmyM's thread about why not to rake? I'm curious, I LOVE raking. I can in almost every opportunity. It's very comfortable and sound flowing. But I'd really like to read it.
 
If I were teaching, I would administer severe beatings to any bass student concerned about speed.

TIMING is absolutely, vitally important for a bassist. SPEED is not.

Jamerson wildly overplayed, but because he was a musical genius, it worked.

If you're not a genius, you're just going to be another overplaying a-hole with his head up his butt wrecking the band's sound. It's bad enough when guitarists get stuck in this nonsense, but a bassist is supposed to have more sense -- common, musical and otherwise.

Playing bass is not a race.

Watch the thousands of newbie showoffs on YouTube who consistently lose the beat trying to play fast and they don't even hear it. :scowl:

Every note must be perfect and perfectly placed within the groove. If you can do that -- and most people on this forum probably can't -- you will be a fine pro bassist. You need never play an unnecessary note.
 
Can I have a link to JimmyM's thread about why not to rake? I'm curious, I LOVE raking. I can in almost every opportunity. It's very comfortable and sound flowing. But I'd really like to read it.

I tried looking through my subscriptions but I must have deleted it, but I'm pretty sure it was called "to rake or not to rake".

And it's very annoying that in every thread about speed, someone has to chime in and complain about the desire to play quicker. I love most of Rush's songs and Jamerson's and I would love to be able to play those songs note for note... This doesn't mean that I'm going to try to play Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" with an onslaught of 16th notes and maybe even toss in the odd 1/32 note. I hear some great songs and they inspire me, and I want to come home and play that song and capture its feel note for note, whether it's "For What It's Worth" or "Hysteria". This isn't a thread about the desire to overplay, but the simple desire to play my favourite songs.
 

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