Cover band set-list conflicts.

[aprod]

Total dick move. Why even bother to audition? Next...

 

[JimmyM]

Right! But auditions work in both directions. Plus it was just one guy. If someone won't talk about the set list and has a my way or the highway attitude, I have no use for them. That doesn't make me right or you wrong. Just different expectations.

If you are a solid bass player and you like most of what you are seeing from a potential project, Then what's wrong with saying "Hey I like what see here but I would love to change out Rock & Roll All Night for Detroit Rock City".

The guy clearly has a "No soup for you" Seinfeld kind of attitude.

I'd say a large % of the Craigslist ads are just a waste of time. There a lot of Flakes pretending to be musicians. And there is no room for a closed minds in music.

I listen to every suggestion and evaluate it on a case by case basis. My Drummer is always pitching ideas to me and Visa Versa. I can't imagine either of us prohibiting the other from making suggestions.

No room for closed minds in music??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! There is PLENTY of room for closed minds in music!

 

[Lesfunk]

Who sings the songs?
Who interacts with the audience?
Who books the band?
Who runs the rehearsals?
Who supplies the P.A.

I do all those things. I choose the majority of the material

When I’m hired to play other people’s show I do their show. Period.
I don’t argue with them about their choice of tunes. I do the gig. I kick ass , ge5 paid and get rehired

 

[buldog5151bass]

I have to disagree. Just like a job interview, you are both deciding if it is a proper fit.

I certainly don't guarantee you that I will take the "Job" if it is offered. Who here has not turned down offers?

He was not offered the job. He did that prior to the audition. The BL gave him a list of songs. If he didn't like the songs, he shouldn't audition.

 

[gln1955]

I have to disagree. Just like a job interview, you are both deciding if it is a proper fit.

I certainly don't guarantee you that I will take the "Job" if it is offered. Who here has not turned down offers?

If you are job interviewing and it's not a good fit, you do what the OP should have done, politely decline their offer. What the OP was doing was like going to a job interview and telling them how to run their company. Unless you are very, very good at what you do and in high demand, that will get you shown the door pretty quickly.

 

[FunkHead]

If you are job interviewing and it's not a good fit, you do what the OP should have done, politely decline their offer. What the OP was doing was like going to a job interview and telling them how to run their company. Unless you are very, very good at what you do and in high demand, that will get you shown the door pretty quickly.

If you were on a job interview, and you had an idea to make a change for the better, that could actually Get you the job. That's not telling them how to run the company. It's just one or two ideas and it shows an interest in the success of the business.

 

[fhm555]

This has been on my mind lately because it tends to happen a lot especially in cover bands. I was gonna audition for this cover band and the leader sent me some songs to practice. I wasn't particularly fond of his song choices and voiced my opinion about it. He then proceeded to mock my reading abilities saying I didn't read the bands he had listed in the ad. The bands weren't the issue the song choices were. I've had conflicts in the past with other cover bands I've been in where one of the members and I didn't see eye to eye on the song choices. Needless to say I don't think I got the gig haha. How do you guys deal with that? Do you just play what you're told? or do you speak up if you're not gelling with a song?

A band with a band leader is no different than a job with a boss. You are not hired as a set list consultant or marketing manager or anything else, except a musician with the skills to quickly come up to speed with the BL’s program.
If being that guy is not your cuppa tea, don’t waste your or their time, start a democratic band and hammer out the minutiae with your fellow travlers or become a BL and tell everyone else how you want it done, and market the band, and book the band, and buy the PA and transportation to move it and on and on and on.
Me personally, i’m happy to be handed a list of stuff to learn if all i have to do is show up washed and on time to play that list and get paid for doing it. Money is not the object so much as making good music and IME people able to cope with being handed a setlist without complaint generally make for better colaborators should something gel in the process of being worker bees.

 

[gln1955]

If you were on a job interview, and you had an idea to make a change for the better, that could actually Get you the job. That's not telling them how to run the company. It's just one or two ideas and it shows an interest in the success of the business.

That could happen, but it's dangerous water to tread until you know the company culture and how decisions are made. Sounds like the OP jumped in with ideas before he knew how the BL operated. Doesn't help that the BL was a dick, too.

 

[electracoyote]

If you were on a job interview, and you had an idea to make a change for the better, that could actually Get you the job. That's not telling them how to run the company. It's just one or two ideas and it shows an interest in the success of the business.

Change for the better? How can you be so sure about that? Maybe they think they're already doing pretty well with it. That's not your call to make when you are auditioning, first conversation after just meeting the interviewer, and could be seen as a little arrogant. You have no idea if the interviewer will see something so fundamental and important as a good idea, bad idea, or a distraction and challenge to established procedure and chosen format. It's more a risk than anything. Nobody wants to take a chance on a potential troublemaker malcontent. About as far as I would go is to ask how songs are selected, and accept it rather than challenge it.

Better to either pass altogether or join the band as-is, take the time to work up a good rapport with the established members, show your loyalty and fidelity to the project, become an asset, and then address song selection in a very respectful and diplomatic way later.

And even then, be smart enough to realize you still may not exact much change at all.

The wisdom and proof is in the OP, the very first post: OP knows he's probably not going one step further with that band, because the conversation got tense and he put a bad smell up the BL's nose.

 

[FunkHead]

Who sings the songs?
Who interacts with the audience?
Who books the band?
Who runs the rehearsals?
Who supplies the P.A.

I do all those things. I choose the majority of the material

When I’m hired to play other people’s show I do their show. Period.
I don’t argue with them about their choice of tunes. I do the gig. I kick ass , ge5 paid and get rehired

There's a big difference between arguing and a friendly discussion about a few of the songs.

Would you honestly reject a fantastic musician for simply being enthusiastic about a few song changes?

I would not. If I had a tried and true song list that I knew worked, I would simply say "This set list has been working great, but let's hear what you have to say". Especially if the person could also sing them.

No one set list works at every club! Some songs tank the very next night after going over real well 3 blocks over. Is anyone ever 100% sure about the set list.

Is it worth passing on a great player over a 5 minute discussion about possible songs to do?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I won't even contact a band unless their listing specifies the type of music I want to play. Then I always ask for the set list. If the list was close I might ask if they have considered other / better songs by the same bands but if their song choice is too far off I don't even bother going down for the initial meet up. You can tell a lot about a band by its song choices.

Him mocking your reading ability would be a huge red flag for me.

I play mostly for fun and not to pay the bills so I won't play where I have so say in the songs we play. You're looking for a fun side band you can afford to be choosey.

It wouldn't be a red flag on the BL's part. The red flag was that despite what he was told upfront, he balked. It's not like there was a bait and switch. It's like the Kinks were listed as one of the bands but he didn't like the Kinks' songs that were chosen.


On the bright side, at least he's not alone in his POV
.

 

[Grahams Groove]

I have to disagree. Just like a job interview, you are both deciding if it is a proper fit.

I certainly don't guarantee you that I will take the "Job" if it is offered. Who here has not turned down offers?

Some people are acting as if the OP were auditioning for Metallica or Iron Maiden. It's a friggin start up cover band. Seriously, where does this stuff come from.

Sure, you're both looking for a good fit, but it behooves the interviewee to understand that their role is not one of having the upper hand, when it is not their company, band, project, etc. You can't bargain if you don't have any chips on the table (yet).

Whether or not the BL in this scenario has an established project or is just starting up, that person is doing the work to put together a desired list of songs, post his ad looking for musicians, answer emails from potential prospects, etc. If you join a start-up on grounds that most of your criteria are met, the time to criticize and seek influence is not immediately. You would wait until you've helped build the thing and earn a role of trust/influence.

It sounds like the BL in this story also has some issue in terms of how he dealt with criticism and suggestions. However, we only have the OP's comments and version of the story to go on. There is a level of respect and maturity that seems to be lacking from the OP. The worst band-mates I've played with are ones who came in guns blazing and had abrasive or dismissive personalities. This is what people seem to be critiquing...

 

[Brad Johnson]

wow, yeah. The more of the interaction you share, the more it seems like this dude was maybe a little off.

Really?


No offense, it seems like you're taking this one side of the story as gospel.

 

[lfmn16]

No room for closed minds in music??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! There is PLENTY of room for closed minds in music!

The problem is that too many people think that just because they have an opinion, they have an obligation to share that opinion. Too much Reality TV and being told we are all special.

I won't say I always succeed, but when dealing with others, I try to think about how what I'm about to say will be taken by them and also what I expect to accomplish. Unless someone is being a real Richard Cranium, I try not to burn my bridges. As my brother says, "Beware the toes you step on today, they may be connected to the @$$ you have to kiss tomorrow."

 

[FunkHead]

Sure, you're both looking for a good fit, but it behooves the interviewee to understand that their role is not one of having the upper hand, when it is not their company, band, project, etc. You can't bargain if you don't have any chips on the table (yet).

Whether or not the BL in this scenario has an established project or is just starting up, that person is doing the work to put together a desired list of songs, post his ad looking for musicians, answer emails from potential prospects, etc. If you join a start-up on grounds that most of your criteria are met, the time to criticize and seek influence is not immediately. You would wait until you've helped build the thing and earn a role of trust/influence.

It sounds like the BL in this story also has some issue in terms of how he dealt with criticism and suggestions. However, we only have the OP's comments and version of the story to go on. There is a level of respect and maturity that seems to be lacking from the OP. The worst band-mates I've played with are ones who came in guns blazing and had abrasive or dismissive personalities. This is what people seem to be critiquing...

I have to respect your point of view. It all makes perfect sense. I certainly would learn the songs that the BL wanted me to audition with. I have been in 5 or 6 successful bands and auditioned for all of them but 2. The others recruited me after seeing my band perform.

In the auditions, we talked a bit first. I definitely indicated that I liked certain other songs by the artists they were covering.

Then we played the songs they wanted me to learn and a few more that I already knew.

Honestly, I could have requested we add a song or two that I loved and it wouldn't have kept me from getting the gig.

Maybe it's just how we say it not what we say??

 

[Brad Johnson]

I

Unfortunately, the majority of your audience are ignorant to appreciating musicianship... they're not there for that. They want entertained, and the crap the play on the radio is what they like. Hence, succumb to the mundane or look for "fun" elsewhere. I'm not bustin' your chops, just being realistic about the situation.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not what I got from the OP. He's new and doesn't know the rules. He's also smart enough to know something was amiss and start a thread to get some perspective.

I wouldn't characterize his attitude as "bad" - just clueless. Everybody here was new once.

If the cluelessness is willful, how is it not bad?

In the olden days there was this thing they called common sense. Sadly what seemed like the obvious way to treat a situation isn't as common as it used to be. Different times I guess.

If you're interested, get your foot in the door first. If you're not, criticizing the person who's doing the hiring's choices is something you see in the movies as a weak plot device.

 

[madbass6]

This has been on my mind lately because it tends to happen a lot esp. ecially in cover bands. I was gonna audition for this cover band and the leader sent me some songs to practice. I wasn't particularly fond of his song choices and voiced my opinion about it. He then proceeded to mock my reading abilities saying I didn't read the bands he had listed in the ad. The bands weren't the issue the song choices were. I've had conflicts in the past with other cover bands I've been in where one of the members and I didn't see eye to eye on the song choices. Needless to say I don't think I got the gig haha. How do you guys deal with that? Do you just play what you're told? or do you speak up if you're not gelling with a song?

if you're already a member of the band after some time you're entitled to opinions , but not being a member yet? Serious dude , its like walking into somebody's house for the first time and asking to change the furniture around or even sujesting it! Not cool! Total disrespect, What where you thinking !

 

[LowNloud1]

If the person forming the band as a vision for what they want to play, you either embrace their song direction or keep looking. Simple.

 

[Ritchie_Darling]

I would have simply told him that I wasn't the guy they were looking for, thank them for their time, and move on....