Cranking The Bass Knob

[BassikLee]

Jimmyjimmyjimmyjimmy.....


It is with great sadness that our friendship has to end this way. Even though you endorsed my bassdom to our mutual USPS employee and gtr slinger. Your abuse of the LF EQ has forced me to pull away. I just can't support that mindset.

Nah, I'm just giving you crap. Rumble on, bass brother.

 

[whero]

I think it's a "horses for courses" thing.

In my most active band days I was in a three-piece with just me, a guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. 99% of the time it worked with a lot of low end thump. I liked people on the dance floor to feel the bass; jump in the air and land two feet further back. But sometimes, e.g. songs with a lot of guitar solo-type stuff, it helped to boost the mids as I'd be playing more notes and occasional two or three note chords to fill in some of the spaces, and it sounded muddy with the bass knob set to 11.

After that I played in a band with a keyboard player who had a heavy left hand so I turned the bass down and upped the mids and treble (a bit) because I was getting lost in the mix.

Then there was the folky acoustic guitarist I subbed with over a year or so who liked me to dial up the bass because he wanted more of an upright, double bass sound (ended up getting nylon wound strings for his gigs).

 

[PDGood]

I've found the opposite. When I play up high, it actually makes the nigh notes sound fuller and more bassy, rather than cop a tone that sounds more like a guitar that wants to be a bass

It does increase the fullness of the high notes, just not in proportion to the low notes. There's just more of that frequency down there so you get fuller but with an imbalance in string volume.

 

[TomB]

Probably Tom Bowlus.

That's what I figured. ...it happens. I could do worse .

 

[Phalex]

One of my favorite sound techs is a cellist and bassist herself. She likes to have me turn my bass way up and turn the treble down on my bass. She knows how to rattle some windows!!

 

[tombowlus]

JimmyM is no dummy. Of course he's seen his tone controls before. He is saying something subtle.

I had an iAMP 800 and didn't love it. The day it was boxed up for sale TomB told me to crank the Master all the way. I'd had the pre set at about 10 and the Master at 10 or so. TomB said that was the least dynamic and worst sounding possibility. Cranked the way Tom suggested was not something I would even consider. It became really tubey phat!

I had a Ken Smith BMT Elite G. I did a lot of studio and live but it wasn't perfect. Then I read that a Nashville session cat cranked his bass and treble eq on the bass to the max. It became the fattest warmest bass sound. Who knew?

So if I get JimmyM's point, sometimes we have preconceived ideas that prevent us from doing the obvious. We have already not considered a range of possibilities.

Yeah, that was me. For the record, I do not recommend cranking the bass knob. But if it works for you, then go for it. I was talking about the somewhat unique gain structure/taper to the iAMP heads. IME/IMHO, they respond best when you provide a really strong input signal (but keep it out of clipping). Once I started treating the iAMP input like a channel strip on a recording console, I was much happier with the results.

Obviously, this approach is not ideal for all bass heads. On many of them, keeping the input gain lower down gets great results.

 

[JimmyM]

It does increase the fullness of the high notes, just not in proportion to the low notes. There's just more of that frequency down there so you get fuller but with an imbalance in string volume.

Somehow it all seems to work out, though.

 

[ThisBass]

Its nice to have a "balanced" sound while all the knobs are set to noon but it makes more fun using the knobs to tweak the balanced sound for best "personal" taste.
Can't remember I ever dimed the bass knob either on instrument nor preamp.
To the contrary I ever liked the sound that I get by boost some lows with the bass guitar preamp and another additional boost with the svt preamp. Both of boost in combination get me a distinct "voicing" at the lows that I can't get with just alone bass preamp nor amp preamp.
The different filter characteristics add to a new (different) characteristic which is impossible to get with only "one" bass knob

 

[pbass2]

Having played lots of reggae and dub, I too am not afraid of the bass knob...

 

[ThisBass]

@JimmyM
thank's a lot for open this thread.

 

[Al Kraft]

Obviously the level of control of bass EQ circuits varies as do the center frequencies and Q.

The Berg Forte which I played last weekend is a good example of an amp where the EQ center (63 Hz), max boost (+10dB) and HPF (set around 40Hz) allow you to really crank the low end with little to no unpleasant artifacts materializing.

I also played an Aguilar AG700 and would not have dared to max out that bass control. It was centered around 40Hz, had a lot of potential gain to add (+17dB), and the head didn't feel like there was much of a HPF circuit to attenuate sub-lows.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the AG700, but can't even imagine feeling a need crank knobs to the degree I might on a head like the Forte.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

TB got me into a bad habit of only wanting to use an amp with the controls set flat/noon with only modest changes. Once I broke that habit my tone immediately improved. As they say, use your ears.

 

[danyosound]

From a goth point of view (I know!) my point of reference for good bass sound stems from the Cure's "Love Song." We all know the bass line, and it cuts through very well. I first saw them in 1992, and last saw them two years ago (2016).

When they played "Love Song" I was surprised at how much low frequencies were coming from the bass, even though the actual bass line can mostly be played comfortably on the guitar (A minor progression). The bass was boomy, for sure, and the note definition was not quite what I'm used to hearing from the radio. But with a mix that included two guitar, two synth parts, and bass, how else are you going to hear all of those parts if you have all the instruments occupying the low-middle frequencies? Furthermore, it was an outdoor venue (Hollywood Bowl).

I think in this case the decision to crank the bass frequencies on the bass was a good one.

A (less goth) counter example I think of is Duran Duran's "Rio." The bass seems to be cranked in the treble frequencies. The sound is very clear, and not boomy at all. Sometimes I think it could actually use a more bass frequencies.

I also try to get a Peter Hook sound (I use a lot of chorus because I'm 80s like that). His sound cuts through very well on records. I don't know what it's like live.

The sound I try to get is what I call "laser sound" - a sound that cuts through the mix without being boomy at all; that makes each note, no matter how low, articulate and clear. I don't know how often I achieve that sound, but that's what I'm going for. My switch from a 210 cab to a 212 cab has been helpful (though I think 810 is best for laser sound).

I have often wondered is more bass (not less) is actually the answer to the riddle of cutting through loud guitars and drums, and while not blanketing the sonic spectrum with overwhelming low frequencies. I fear that if I'm too deep, I'll lose definition on bass, and other instruments also.

It feels like some bands just plug their equipment on and it's always good. Not me....

 

[Al Kraft]

TB got me into a bad habit of only wanting to use an amp with the controls set flat/noon with only modest changes. Once I broke that habit my tone immediately improved. As they say, use your ears.

Good comment! My only caveat would be that I typically only buy a head that sounds good to me with all the controls at/near their neutral positions so that I have room left to adjust on a gig and for different styles of music.

 

[ThisBass]

It does increase the fullness of the high notes, just not in proportion to the low notes. There's just more of that frequency down there so you get fuller but with an imbalance in string volume.

There is no balance in string volume anyway even for flat EQ.
IIRC the volume of a G-string is (naturally) about more than -6dB down versus A/E-string.
To make the strings even balnced in "average" volume would ask for about -9dB low cut on the E-string. I think the bass guitar E-string would sound like an 6-string Telecaster E-string in this case.

 

[gidbass]

This thread is stressing me out! I had no idea this many talkbassers were so rash!

Just look at any thread involving a Rickenbacker discussion and you'll see that this is tame by comparison...

Good Luck

 

[ThisBass]

Just look at any thread involving a Rickenbacker discussion and you'll see that this is tame by comparison...

Good Luck

Rickenbacker is a good (likely the best) bet to have "best balanced" volume for all of the 4 strings and all of the notes on the fretboard.

edit, interestingly "balanced volume" is not automatically best to meet anybodys taste of sound.

 

[NOVAX]

I have a 31 band eq that has
3 or 4 sliders full of bass knobs.
Good fun.

 

[BurningSkies]

TB got me into a bad habit of only wanting to use an amp with the controls set flat/noon with only modest changes. Once I broke that habit my tone immediately improved. As they say, use your ears.

I'm keeping an eye out for a lapse. The rate of recidivism is extremely high with bass players and the next step for you would have to be a closed residential facility.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I am going to admit something that may get me raked over the coals...I love cranking the bass knob! Didn't always...took me a long time to warm up to the idea. But now I'll turn the bass up all the way if I need to. Gotta be judicious about it sometimes...don't want to overcrank the lows in a dark sounding room with a lot of natural reverb or anything dumb like that. And mids are still important if you want some note definition as well. But over the past years, I've gotten less shy about warming up the room real good, and I think it's working out great, and I don't get why so many people on here tell bass players not to do it. The lows are what people mostly hear out of your bass in a mix. Might as well let them have it.

There. I said it. I do something considered wrong by conventional TB wisdom, and I do so unapologetically. Take that.

Disagree. What hear are not the sub 40hz that you get generate cranking the bass. In order to hear those frequencies, it has disproportionately high and will tend to make your sound, as well as the band sound muddy. If you want to sit well and or have a better presence in the mix, try boosting the low mids 70-120hz.

A further problem by cranking the super low frequencies is it is h*ll on your speakers, and stresses your amp. It takes much more of your usable power to generate rock bottom lows which will in turn effect reduce what you need to hear.