CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[crazyBassClown]

What major band didn't play the bar circuit ?
The thing is that many of them got out of that rut and moved UP!
Rush played the bars for about six years and then they got a record deal... six years later they were selling out three nighters everywhere and playing music that they wanted to play.. imagine that,

Justin Bieber made some youtube videos, got a record deal and a few years later retired as a multi millionaire. Local bars aren't the path to fame and fortune if that's what you desire. You also have to provide what the masses want if fame is what you seek, and what you consider musical talent probably isn't what they actually want.

 

[tubedude]

Justin Bieber made some youtube videos, got a record deal and a few years later retired as a multi millionaire. Local bars aren't the path to fame and fortune if that's what you desire. You also have to provide what the masses want if fame is what you seek, and what you consider musical talent probably isn't what they actually want.

The beibs isn't a musician, just a mouth.
The path to stardom is more greuling and treacherous for musicians than for pop- tarts.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Does that mean I am qualified to discuss virtually every aspect of my music scene, including what is tearing it down? It sure does.

Have you ever tried to run a venue? Sounds like you should set a venue up and book the top quality local bands and make yourself a fortune meeting all that pent up demand that isn't being filled by all the crappy hack bands.
Or maybe accept that the hack bands really are as good as yours and you really aren't worth more than that. Either way best of luck with it.

 

[Son of Wobble]

The beibs isn't a musician, just a mouth.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The beibs isn't a musician, just a mouth.
The path to stardom is more greuling and treacherous for musicians than for pop- tarts.

You can call him whatever you want, but he did it. Net worth - $265 million.

 

[crazyBassClown]

The beibs isn't a musician, just a mouth.
The path to stardom is more greuling and treacherous for musicians than for pop- tarts.

Mostly because the musicians insist on doing "their art" rather than what the audience wants.

 

[crazyBassClown]

The real money in the music business is definitely in songwriting, period.

This was true when selling pre recorded music was the profit generator, because of how the licensing worked. Given the collapse in sales, and income mostly coming from live performance and merch these days, the money is transferring to the performers much more than the writers. I wouldn't recommend attempting to start a career as a songwriter these days.

 

[two fingers]

Have you ever tried to run a venue? Sounds like you should set a venue up and book the top quality local bands and make yourself a fortune meeting all that pent up demand that isn't being filled by all the crappy hack bands.
Or maybe accept that the hack bands really are as good as yours and you really aren't worth more than that. Either way best of luck with it.

Ha! Hostile much?

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

This was true when selling pre recorded music was the profit generator, because of how the licensing worked. Given the collapse in sales, and income mostly coming from live performance and merch these days, the money is transferring to the performers much more than the writers. I wouldn't recommend attempting to start a career as a songwriter these days.

True dat. Typical hit song has an average of 4+ song writers and 6 different publishers. OMG: we're back to $100 a man!

The Average Hit Song Has 4+ Writers and 6 Different Publishers

 

[Son of Wobble]

True dat. Typical hit song has an average of 4+ song writers and 6 different publishers. OMG: we're back to $100 a man!

LOLZ!

 

[crazyBassClown]

Ha! Hostile much?

Coming from the guy saying "If you're band aint as good as I think my band is, stay in the garage".

 

[Father Gino]

Which begs the question why I keep responding to the both of you.

Oooo, oooo I know why!

But I’m not going to say.

 

[two fingers]

Coming from the guy saying "If you're band aint as good as I think my band is, stay in the garage".

Now, let's not get ridiculous. I never said that. I never said a band had to be as good as mine. I simply said the SHOULD be better than they are.

I never proposed a law. I never said I'm the king of local music. I simply stated my opinions. And, of course, you completely misunderstood those opinions.


And then you followed it all up with the latest in snark "Good luck with that".

I disagree with you. But I'm not stupid.

 

[Grahams Groove]

Now, let's not get ridiculous. I never said that. I never said a band had to be as good as mine. I simply said the SHOULD be better than they are.

I never proposed a law. I never said I'm the king of local music. I simply stated my opinions. And, of course, you completely misunderstood those opinions.


And then you followed it all up with the latest in snark "Good luck with that".

I disagree with you. But I'm not stupid.

I think people are put off by you whining about circumstances without having any decent criteria for what you're angry about. So you're saying bands who aren't good shouldn't get gigs, but all you've done to classify that group is say the same thing about 'garage hacks', 'socks & sandals', and 'poor production'. I think everyone gets that you're upset. Hell, your profile title says upfront that you're an 'opinionated blowhard'. Though, starting this thread indicates that you may be mad about it, despite the disclaimer.

Point is, you started a thread shouting that some vague group of 'other bands' shouldn't be taking gigs for some amount of money, because it hurts your band's ability to get the rate you want. Conversely, you said later in the thread that you're perfectly satisfied with your band's circumstances and don't need the money. Perhaps you should make a coherent argument and have a point if you want to yell about what others should do. You're talking in circles and defending it with some pretty hazy, contradictory statements. Did you not expect reasonably intelligent people on the internet to point this out?

Let's put a few direct questions on the table to get at your point, since this seems to irritate you so much. If you saw one of these 'hack bands' in a venue your band wants to play, would you approach the members and make any of your comments face-to-face? Would you explain that they undercut your ability to earn decent money? Would you critique their playing, attire, and stage production? Would you insist that they get back in the garage? Would you tell them that they are egocentric & selfish for wanting to perform live?

 

[Pbassmanca]

I agree, that seems to be the case. Many musicians are still willing to do it, which is OP's point, but it is also the rebuttal point.

I think that this thread is a great oppourtunity for working players to further discuss the some of the complex causes of low pay and possible solutions to the challenge of earning more pay for gigs. I think it should be plainly said that @two fingers is neither alone or wrong in his frustration and in his desire to make more money for his time playing gigs. I share these exact same sentiments about my part time work as a musician. It's every persons right to try and improve their earnings for plying their trade as they see fit. I mean, there's entire financial sectors on this continent devoted to sucking borrowers and consumers dry of their last penny and everyone just shrugs and says, "that's capitalism bud, deal with it". Why shouldn't we have the same right as musicians to atleast explore ways to boost our pay and profits, and not just accept our poopy lot?
That said, there's only two questions to explore so far as I see it.

1) What are all of the reasons and combined circumstances that account for the current and historic standards of pay for local gigging musicians in North America and how do they combine to keep the price of musical labour low?

2) Assuming that we can identify the entire set of circumstances both internal and external that contribute to our shared experience in this matter, what can be done by individuals or groups on a local level to change or counteract these circumstances that would achieve the desired result of atleast marginally increasing , (ideally significantly increasing), the average pay for local gigging bass players across North America?
The reason I say across North America, is because there's no way that players from Alaska to Newfoundland to Los Angeles to Florida complain about making the exact same money across multiple decades and economies, and there isn't something interesting going on with our trade....

 

[DJ Bebop]

If he can hold a groove, I'd hire him for my hack band @ $100 a gig

 

[DJ Bebop]

Mostly because the musicians insist on doing "their art" rather than what the audience wants.

Not always true.
Some musician doing their art created an audience for their art because the audience liked what they were doing and wanted it.

Just think of all the artist and music you didn't know about until it hit the scene. Where do you think that stuff comes from, playing Free Bird over and over again because that's what the audience wants?

 

[Lance Bunyon]

This is 100% on the venues. In this town they just don't pay.

 

[DJ Bebop]

This is 100% on the venues. In this town they just don't pay.

This is the problem I think, playing local.
You really can't make money playing local venues, unless maybe your local scene is Las Vegas, LA or New York, maybe...

 

[crazyBassClown]

This is the problem I think, playing local.
You really can't make money playing local venues, unless maybe your local scene is Las Vegas, LA or New York, maybe...

From what I gather from here, the supply of musicians is even greater in LA, new York, Nashville and all the other musical towns and you actually end up getting paid less at the local level than any similar non musical town.