Crossing Genres...

[Silas Martinez]

So, I find myself in an interesting situation.

I have, for years, been involved in prog rock/funk/modern types of music. However, my big love is, of course, playing out. I've played, recently, with several bands that fit the styles I have enjoyed fairly well. However, they are primarily originals, and tend to have limited fan appeal - which directly translates to limited playing out.

I have an opportunity to try out for a classic rock/country rock band. They play out A LOT. They have some originals, which I like quite a lot (they seem, to my relative inexperience in the genre, really solid), and a huge selection of covers.

I'm interested in playing with them because:
a) They are getting a lot of gigs. My biggest love is performing - playing in front of crowds, getting people moving. This project would give a ton of those experiences.
b) I like their originals, and think it would be a fun challenge to bring my perspective and sensibilities to this kind of music.
c) While I have a sort of 'musical snobbery' in that, if the bass line isn't challenging, it must not be good, my wife, and my real experience, contradicts that. I want to push that feeling, that new (and to me, more mature) perspective - music is good because people like it, and music is fun to play if you are enjoying playing it.

So, I'm interested in hearing stories from people who have crossed genres - picked up something new, because they felt they had something to learn from it, and that it would be an enjoyable experience.

The main things I'm interested in are:
a) Am I making a mistake? Did you, later on, discover that you felt you had somehow wasted the time?
b) Am I doing this for the wrong reasons? Is it wrong to pursue something out of your 'comfort zone' because it appeals to a different desire (beyond the pure 'musicians music', playing for the sake of playing)?
c) How did you prepare? What should I do to prepare for an audition with music I've never played before - in a genre I've never played before? I'm good at picking things up on the fly - I've never had a problem playing by ear and sight - but I may not know trademark lines, that sort of thing. Heck, I may not even be aware that a song has a trademark line I should be aware of. They have a huge library, and while I'll make an effort to at least listen to as much of it as possible before audition, in three days I'm going to be ... challenged, at least, to learn even a significant portion of them.

Lastly, should I even bother? Am I wasting their time? Are they going to listen to me adding a subtle walk that isn't in the original, or a little arpeggio in the ballad that 'doesn't belong', and decide I'm 'too notey', 'too jazzy/proggy' or something along those lines? I know, the only way to find out is to give it a shot.. And while I know I can keep it mostly in the pocket, I also know that I often totally unconsciously add fills and transitory color. So I guess my last concerns are more specific to classic/country rock - in general, how deep is it usually expected for the bassist to keep in the pocket? Does it sound wrong to you for some subtle color to be added to a familiar song, as long as the groove is solid?

Ack. Help me, my brother bassists! Please!

 

[Matt Till]

I think as long as you know when and where to add your jazzy/proggy, you'll be alright. It's rough, I know: I was in a cover band when all I wanted to do was original material. There were some songs that I did spice up the bassline, sometimes too often. But there were other times I would play basslines note for note as they were on the radio.

It's generic to say, "Play what fits" but I'm gonna do it. Be open to criticism, and perhaps ask for it from your bandmates. My band (original and in the cover band) dig flashy bass so I'll be over the top sometimes, but most of the time I keep it simple.

 

[Depth_Charge]

It's better.

I played metal for years. Only metal! 10 years+. Oh, and Long View by Green Day

Recently got into TB (Sep 06) and a cover band (this year) and through playing their songs I decided that lines are heavy, not songs, and that I play bass, not genre's.

Since choosing that mindset I am a much better bass player. I don't like all the songs I play, but I find something to enjoy within most at least, with the exception of 2! Here's a sample we cover:

1. The Commitments - Mustang Sally
2. Violent Femmes - Blister in the Sun


Garbage - Why Do You Love Me? (heavy much?)
Evanescence - Bring Me To Life (Drop D and punching bass effects)
No Doubt - Just a Girl (awesome bass work harmonics, slides, cool pentatonic riffs etc)
The Atari's - Boys of Summer (crowd pleaser)
Kelly Clarkson - Walk Away (3 notes on the recording, the same, right through!!!)
Gin Blossoms - Hey Jealousy
AC/DC - You Shook Me All Night Long
Queen - Crazy Little Thing Called Love (awesome line)
Gary Moore - Walking by Myself (cool bassline me like)
Cream - Sunshine of your Love (Never knew what that tune "John Bender" sang in Breakfast Club until having to learn it for this band).
Killing Heidi - Weir (cool bass work check it out!!!)
Hole - Celebrity Skin (sheer sleazy bass work, it's more like sex than a bassline IMO!)
Wild Cherry - Play That Funky Music, later they want me to write a jam based off of it. I have no funk experience at all.

And I could go on.

Basically by opening myself up to a variety of genres, both my musical tastes and influences have improved, as have my technical abilities, as has my ability to write my own licks songs and fills, as has the opportunity for me to network and jam with a lot more musicians, and I have been better able to respect the genres by understanding them, learn some history about music etc etc.

It's just better.

 

[Silas Martinez]

I think that makes sense. As in, its the way the line fits that displays technical adeptness, and musical facility, not the line itself.

I'm stoked about the possibility. Looking forward to it, and listening to a lot of country, with new ears.

 

[Phalex]

You can't go wrong pursuing something you love. The worst thing that can happen is you play more gigs in front of more people, and that may open up possibilities further down the road.

There is nothing wrong with applying your style of playing to an existing song, so long as you don't forget where the pocket is. I myself adhere to the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) philosophy of bass playing, and tend to play around more with the time than with the notes, but if people dig what you do, do it. The important thing is to take criticism in a constructive manner. If your drummer wants you to play something a little differently, do it.

 

[tZer]

a) Am I making a mistake? Did you, later on, discover that you felt you had somehow wasted the time?

Only you know if you are making a mistake. But I was in a very similar situation many years ago - prog/melodic metal/hard rock band + originals = some gigs, but eh... not really my scene. So I put the word out to some friends in other bands that I was interested in finding something different and interesting.

I ended up in a band that did all original material - a sort of hybrid folk-rock-worldbeat thing (kinda like Rusted Root meets 10,000 Maniacs), got lots of great gigs around town, had a little bit of local market radio play, did in-studio radio performances, won a spot on a local bands compillation CD released by a major station, recorded in a few pro-studios, even got some indie label interest and so on...

And even though the band eventually broke up (in a friendly way) was it a waste of time? No way! That was over 10 years ago and I am still playing with the guitar player and drummer from that band today.

b) Am I doing this for the wrong reasons? Is it wrong to pursue something out of your 'comfort zone' because it appeals to a different desire (beyond the pure 'musicians music', playing for the sake of playing)?

Again, right and wrong are subjective concepts and you are the only one who can answer that. Pursuing something out of your zone or different, if that is what you want to do, is what it is... pursuing something different. I would simply say to commit to it and give it all you got. Don't half-ass it. If you want to get something good out of it, you have to put something good into it.

c) How did you prepare?

Know your material. Don't sweat the little stuff, focus on getting the big-picture. As long as they can see that you have the chops and get it, the rest will fall into place.

Listen to their material a lot and jam with it as much as you can, but focus on getting it from a feel and style perspective. Again, assuming you have the chops, the rest is how you deliver the goods. You could be Mr. Jaco, but if you can't lay back and groove easy when the song needs, no amount of "Portraits of Tracy" will make you right for the gig.

Lastly, should I even bother?

That's your call man. I'd say if you aren't diggin' where you're at, you need to do something. Don't get in your own way with so much second-guessing.

 

[seanm]

Lastly, should I even bother? Am I wasting their time? Are they going to listen to me adding a subtle walk that isn't in the original, or a little arpeggio in the ballad that 'doesn't belong', and decide I'm 'too notey', 'too jazzy/proggy' or something along those lines? I know, the only way to find out is to give it a shot.. And while I know I can keep it mostly in the pocket, I also know that I often totally unconsciously add fills and transitory color. So I guess my last concerns are more specific to classic/country rock - in general, how deep is it usually expected for the bassist to keep in the pocket? Does it sound wrong to you for some subtle color to be added to a familiar song, as long as the groove is solid?

Ack. Help me, my brother bassists! Please!

As long as the groove is solid, nobody will notice the little fills, so go ahead. I used to think I simplified the bass lines a bit too much. But I went to see two cover bands that the crowd loved. The bass player skipped all the signature bass lines. The one bass player even skipped the opening bass line for "Born to be Wild"

Just keep it low so the dancers can feel it and everybody will be happy.

 

[Mickey Shane]

1. Drop the self proclaimed "musical-snobbery".

2. You are never wasting time while you are playing your bass and learning new songs.

3. Learn 3 of their songs. They will know all of them, so pick any 3 that you want to learn. After the band plays the 3 songs, state that your audition playing is official over, then jam & follow the best you can with a smile on your face.

 

[seanm]

3. Learn 3 of their songs. They will know all of them, so pick any 3 that you want to learn. After the band plays the 3 songs, state that your audition playing is official over, then jam & follow the best you can with a smile on your face.

 

[Cristo]

Give it a shot. Musical snobbery is overrated since many musical snobs are playing for an audience of one.

Since you know you really crave playing for the crowd, here's your chance. If it does not work out like you want, you can quit and do something else.

You can always go back to being a snob.

 

[Silas Martinez]

Give it a shot. Musical snobbery is overrated since many musical snobs are playing for an audience of one.

Since you know you really crave playing for the crowd, here's your chance. If it does not work out like you want, you can quit and do something else.

You can always go back to being a snob.

Oh, I realize its overrated, and a limitation. Its why I use a deragotory term in describing it. I don't think I have as bad a case of it as some folk, but I know for a while I did. Now, though, I'm basically just choosing to play for the crowd, rather than playing for the music. Feels wierd, but feels right at the same time.

*shrugs*

If I get the gig, I have about a week to learn some 80 tunes. Busy week ahead. heh. On the flip side, I'm sure glad I have good 'faking it' skills, because it looks like I'm going to need them.

 

[seanm]

If I get the gig, I have about a week to learn some 80 tunes. Busy week ahead. heh. On the flip side, I'm sure glad I have good 'faking it' skills, because it looks like I'm going to need them.

80 songs? That's over 5 hours with no breaks between songs. What kind of gigs are they getting?

 

[Silas Martinez]

80 songs? That's over 5 hours with no breaks between songs. What kind of gigs are they getting?

They play out a lot. Average 4+ shows a month (booked pretty solid through december, at this point). Typically Friday/Saturday shows. They tend to hit some of the better attended bars/clubs in the region, for the genre. Often 2-3 hours on stage - not every song will get played every time we go on stage, but I'll have to know them all.

Toss in regional (county) fairs, casinos, biker gatherings, car shows, etc, and you get a sense of what they're doing. Its a busy schedule, and A LOT of playing out. I'm very excited about the possibility. I've been clear with them that I'm not coming from a huge background in the specific genre, and they don't mind - I actually seem to have a lot in common (in terms of musical taste) with the lead guitarist.

Ya, when I say I'm thinking of changing genres, I'm not talking half-@ssing it. I'd be totally immersed in the culture and the music. I could give up on pursuing the proggy stuff - no time for it.

 

[Depth_Charge]

Ya, when I say I'm thinking of changing genres, I'm not talking half-@ssing it. I'd be totally immersed in the culture and the music. I could give up on pursuing the proggy stuff - no time for it.

To me, that sounds like moving from one snobbery to the next LOL.

 

[Silas Martinez]

To me, that sounds like moving from one snobbery to the next LOL.

Nah, I retain my sensibilities, and personal preferences - I just love to play out, and am willing to take a broader minded perspective to accomplish it. If I have a hard coded bias, it is towards enjoying playing and performing with a live band. While I agree that thinking less of certain kinds of music based on some artificial factor - technical agility required, or something like that - represents 'snobbery', I don't think that choosing to get heavily into a music scene in pursuit of what you love qualifies.

 

[Jeb]

My take is different. There are one or two genres that I simply can't stand (and will keep to myself), anything else is fair game to me. I just like to play and I love to be challenged with different things- as long as I'm playing.

Sounds like khaspir digs the working band. Go for it! I would. I'm more of a bass whore than a genre snob

 

[Silas Martinez]

Thanks, Jeb.

I am going for it. Even as I posted this, I was pondering how to learn enough, fast enough, to be able to keep up. I was talking to the guys in the band, getting a sense of what they are looking for, and arranging the audition.

The trick, now, of course, is that I audition on sunday, and if I get the job, then I .... definitely have my work cut out for me.

One thing at a time, of course, and the first thing is to get the job. There isn't much chance of me learning their whole library in a day, so .... I just need to focus on the stuff that sets me apart, and will make them want me, over other applicants.

Number one, I think, is to get their originals down as well as possible - at least, the originals I have available. Number two is to remember, above all, to be myself. They are interested in me even though they know I'm an originals band-based prog rocker. They know that means I'm not immediately familiar with a huge library of cover tunes. That means, to me, that they want a thinker, and someone who can, perhaps, bring a little new energy.

Thats my story, and I'm ... err.. sticking to it.

 

[Depth_Charge]

Nah, I retain my sensibilities, and personal preferences - I just love to play out, and am willing to take a broader minded perspective to accomplish it.

Yeah I get you. Guess with me I'm lucky in that it's a lot more diverse than one genre, so I get to taste a lot of styles and play live! Best of both worlds for me.

Thanks, Jeb.

I am going for it. Even as I posted this, I was pondering how to learn enough, fast enough, to be able to keep up. I was talking to the guys in the band, getting a sense of what they are looking for, and arranging the audition.

There are some great resources on TB both in the EBG section, and check out Lynn Seatons "brain question" thread there is advice in there on how to learn songs by ear so you inject them into you and pretty much never forget.

Good luck man!