curious. Why does Fender sell the Jaco Pastorius bass with flatwound strings?

[Flaked Beans]

Jaco's original bass doesn't have polyurethane coated pau ferro fingerboard w/12" radius either, it has slab 7.25" rosewood fb coated with hard epoxy, trust me (mr. Robert Trujillo can confirm that ). About the flats, yup, Jaco-unaccurate (sound wise) but they will not eat that poly finish fast. Anyway, those flats are also totally different than the pure nickel flats from the '60s and stainless from the '70s (still have a few unused sets of both of them) so the "period correct" theory is also false. But hey, if you ignore the lack of the mute holes, that bass looks like Jaco's bass! (when it was brand new )

 

[ClassicJazz]

Have you played one?

Yes. I ended up getting the Fender Japan model. Much better bass and less expensive. At least back in 2004 when I got it. Even with shipping from Japan it was less expensive then the US model.

 

[ClassicJazz]

Have you played one?

Here is an old pic of me with the Fender Japan model. It even has the exposed ground strap like the 60's Jazz basses which the US one doesn't have.

 

[luciens]

To me, that bass is kind of a joke. They took a 60's reissue and took off the pickguard and put on P-bass knobs and slapped Jaco's name on it to sell more. It's not really an artists model. Not like the relic custom shop one.

Actually the Fender Japan version (which they don't call a Jaco model) is a much better bass and yes, comes with round wound strings.

Heh. When a poster says "such and such Fender jazz bass is a much better bass than such and such Fender jazz bass" you already know the chances are at least 50% that that poster a) hasn't played one or the other of the basses he's comparing and/or b) doesn't really know what he's talking about.

But in all seriousness, as we all already know, trying to make a qualitative comparison between MIJ and MIA Fender jazz basses is actually not that easy. The MIJ Fenders are very well made instruments, to the point that they are often practically indistinguishable from the MIA Fenders in terms of general quality, workmanship, etc.

So my response would be "Nah...".

As for the strangeness of the Jaco Artist model, I posted my opinion about that earlier. I agree it is a bit of an odd duck, given what the market tends to want in terms of a Jaco replica bass.

To me, it's more inspired by the Kaufmann Jacos, since the resemblance to those is very strong. But what FMIC had in mind when they made this bass, probably nobody knows for sure.

A joke? Hell no. A head-scratcher? Yes, definitely.

As for how good of a bass it is, ignoring the QC issues that FMIC is having with their MIA basses, once you do get a properly constructed one, it's a very high quality bass. Better in almost every way than a real 1962 Jazz Bass for sure. Taking nothing away from the MIJ basses, of course, which are also superb. Or the original pre-CBS basses which were still fairly decent basses, especially given how they were built with certain more "primitive" methods, materials and tools than FMIC has today...

L

 

[luciens]

Here is an old pic of me with the Fender Japan model. It even has the exposed ground strap like the 60's Jazz basses which the US one doesn't have.

View attachment 4554363

FMIC Japan made an unlined version a while back that I tried to find a copy of for a while, but never could find one in good condition for a reasonable price. But I lusted after the unlined for quite a while....

L

 

[ClassicJazz]

Heh. When a poster says "such and such Fender jazz bass is a much better bass than such and such Fender jazz bass" you already know the chances are above 50% that that poster a) hasn't played one or the other of the basses he's comparing and/or b) doesn't really know what he's talking about.

But in all seriousness, as we all already know, trying to make a qualitative comparison between MIJ and MIA Fender jazz basses is actually not that easy. The MIJ Fenders are very well made instruments, to the point that they are often practically indistinguishable from the MIA Fenders in terms of general quality, workmanship, etc.

So my response would be "BS".

As for the strangeness of the Jaco Artist model, I posted my opinion about that earlier. I agree it is a bit of an odd duck, given what the market tends to want in terms of a Jaco replica bass.

To me, it's more inspired by the Kaufmann Jacos, since the resemblance to those is very strong. But what FMIC had in mind when they made this bass, probably nobody knows for sure.

As for how good of a bass it is, ignoring the QC issues that FMIC is having with their MIA basses, once you do get a properly constructed one, it's a very high quality bass. Taking nothing away from the MIJ basses, of course, which are also superb.

L

FYI, I have played that bass and yes, I have owned the Fender Japan version. So my post was not based on BS. On hands on experience.

Also, I actually had the honor of playing Jaco's bass when I roadied for him back in '83 in NY when he was touring with Mike Stern. So I have a bit more insight then most here. Also I know Kevin Kaufman, he has worked on some of my basses here in Florida.

 

[ClassicJazz]

From '83 when I roadied for Jaco.

 

[luciens]

FYI, I have played that bass and yes, I have owned the Fender Japan version. So my post was not based on BS. On hands on experience.

Also, I actually had the honor of playing Jaco's bass when I roadied for him back in '83 in NY when he was touring with Mike Stern. So I have a bit more insight then most here. Also I know Kevin Kaufman, he has worked on some of my basses here in Florida.

Then surely you understand my skepticism of your comparison between the two basses. At least, based on the two Artists I have, I don't see how they can be as inferior to the MIJ as you're suggesting.

Again, FMIC's recent quality control problems notwithstanding of course...

L

 

[ClassicJazz]

FMIC Japan made an unlined version a while back that I tried to find a copy of for a while, but never could find one in good condition for a reasonable price. But I lusted after the unlined for quite a while....

L

While not technically a Jazz bass. I have this unlined MIJ Boxer from the mid 80's. Great bass!

 

[luciens]

While not technically a Jazz bass. I have this unlined MIJ Boxer from the mid 80's. Great bass!
View attachment 4554422

Yeah I lusted for one of these also, but the Tony Franklin kind of quelled that particular GAS.

It was the unlined Jazz Bass they made for a few years that I really had the GAS for. My current Jacos have quelled that too, but I still remember wanting one serious bad....

L

 

[ClassicJazz]

Then surely you understand my skepticism of your comparison between the two basses. At least, based on the two Artists I have, I don't see how they can be as inferior to the MIJ as you're suggesting.

Again, FMIC's recent quality control problems notwithstanding of course...

L

From my experience, Fender Japan always made better quality basses then the US or Mexican ones. The Japanese market is much more demanding in that respect. That's why Japanese instruments are very sought after. In addition to the two MIJ Boxer basses I have, I also have a Bacchus and Crews Maniac Sound basses, both handmade in Japan.

 

[Phaidrus]

A

From '83 when I roadied for Jaco.

View attachment 4554396 View attachment 4554397 View attachment 4554398 View attachment 4554399 View attachment 4554400

Ay, caramba! So how was it possible at all for the Roto fret eaters not to eat the fretless board?

 

[bobyoung53]

My experience in regard to sliding easier is actually the opposite. When I've played on flats the increased surface area contact with my fingertips creates more friction. It actually feel like I'm having to drag my fingers. Like dragging my fingers down a textured wall vs the glass window next to it. It's less abrasive feeling but feels like more effort is required to slide along the smooth surface.

Try La Bella DTB, it's almost like they're not even there as far as drag.

 

[luciens]

From my experience, Fender Japan always made better quality basses then the US or Mexican ones. The Japanese market is much more demanding in that respect. That's why Japanese instruments are very sought after. In addition to the two MIJ Boxer basses I have, I also have a Bacchus and Crews Maniac Sound basses, both handmade in Japan.

We're reporting different experiences, then, for whatever reason.

Assuming you can get one that's made right, today's MIA Fenders are the best basses FMIC has ever produced at any time that I've observed. Easily comparable to the MIJ instruments and in no way inferior.

Again, that's putting aside the production problems they've had especially during the pandemic (I've written my complaints about this elsewhere with my current Fenders). Which is a separate issue. Once you get one that's actually built right, an MIA is more or less the best quality FMIC bass you can buy.

L

 

[Phaidrus]

This was a while back in the past, at least 10 years ago, when the SH P wasn't made from maple, had a wider neck and was painted blue. The reviews from then give the impression that the Roto flats were fitted to the bass, not merely included in the case. Eg 4'30" in this

Yes, I've watched this video a while back. Apparently Fender offer a different package nowadays.

 

[bobyoung53]

No, that's not what we do. Nobody who actually knows their instrument blindly wrenches on their bridges like that when they fit flats to their FL bass. Instead, we play it for a couple of tunes and, recognizing the smallness of the change, we simply note that the issue "heals itself", via our normal intonation skills. No tools required, just a little practice.

L

I always intonate a fretless bass if I change the type of string, gauge, flat vs round etc. I would imagine most people would, intonating a bass fretted or fretless is not rocket science.

 

[Bass Viking]

From my experience, Fender Japan always made better quality basses then the US or Mexican ones. The Japanese market is much more demanding in that respect.

I've heard Roger Sadowsky say the same thing, that the Japanese consumer is very picky.

 

[luciens]

I always intonate a fretless bass if I change the type of string, gauge, flat vs round etc. I would imagine most people would, intonating a bass fretted or fretless is not rocket science.

Nope, apples and oranges. This has already been hashed out here and in a couple other threads elsewhere. Dkelley decided to resort to the tantrums and personal attacks again, as he did in our last exchanges on this topic, which as I'm sure you noticed is why I quit responding to him. So I'm not commenting on this particular part of the thread any further.

L

 

[ClassicJazz]

My Crews Maniac Sound Fretless has Round Wounds. But then again that bass has a coated ebony fretboard. My Boxer Fretless though has Rotosound Jazz 77 flats on it. My favorite flat wound strings.

 

[bobyoung53]

Does anyone have any pics of legitmate fingerboard damage or excessive wear from using rounds? I play EB power slinkys on my 5 string fretless and the only evidence of wear is if the fingerboard is held in the just the right light, there is slight evidence of visible imprints from the ridges of the rounds. These imprints are probably on the order of 10,000ths of an inch deep. They are not detectable to the touch and only visible with a light shone on the board. I'd say it's similar to swirl marks on a gloss finish from a polishing cloth.

I expect the fingerboard to last me for decades of play and I easily expect it to be more than adequate to pass on to the next player after my final ticket gets punched.

So, does anybody have evidence of more severe damage? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks TB.

I have no pictures but I got my first fretless bass second hand in 1977, it was a rosewood Fender precision factory fretless, early 70's. I put Rotosounds on it which is what Jaco (and just about everyone back then) used and within one month I completely ruined the neck by using sideways vibrato. I played hard and had no idea round wound strings could do that to a fretless. I ended up putting two part epoxy on several fretless basses after that. Rotos are particularly rough on fretless basses. Ric fretlesses also don't like round wound strings, whatever they used on the neck would very quickly show divots on notes you played a lot, I superglued one. I now have the same strings on a TF fretless with a bare ebony neck. The reason Jaco was able to get away with using Rotos was because he put marine epoxy on the neck which is hard as nails. I like the bare wood ebony much better than any other fretless bass I've ever played.