Custom DIY 2x15 cab build

[kraigo]

Can anyone share their WDR file for the PR400? Mine is showing that a 2x15 would hit xMax at about 400 watts. More importantly, WinISD computed efficiency to be 96.55 dB. I want to check my work.

FWIW, WDR files are just text inside. You can open one in Notepad, copy and paste the text into a post.

KO

 

[OldogNewTrick]

[Driver]
Brand=FaitalPro
Model=15 PR400
Manufacturer=Faital
ProvidedBy=me
Comment=
DateAdded=20120314
DateModified=20120314
Qts=0,297930306950285
Znom=8
Fs=32,018526028045
Pe=400
SPL=96,4974636573399
Re=5,1
Le=0,00075
fLe=0
KLe=0
BL=16,7
Xmax=0,00575
Cms=0,00029
Qms=6,02
Qes=0,313442608016333
Rms=2,84724151357159
Mms=0,0852
Sd=0,08055
Vas=0,266915463829875
Dia=0
Vd=0,0004631625
no=0,0271832290438777
Dd=0,320249036420748
EBP=102,151160082157
numVC=1
Hc=0
Hg=0
SPLmax=119,51806357062
SPLmaxLF=93,8790793887382
USPL=98,4574906068463
alfaVC=0
Rt=0
Ct=0
gamma=196,009389671362
Rme=54,6843137254902
Mpow=7,3948842942598
Mcost=0
Gloss=0,042139601426087
VCCon=1
c=343,684120962152
roo=1,20095217714682
Thick=0
Depth=0
MagDepth=0
Magnet=0
Basket=0
Outer=0
Vcd=0
DVol=0
ParState=CCECEENNEEEEECCCEECCNCCENNCCCNNNCCCCNCNNNNNNNNNCC

 

[Joe Louvar]

FWIW, WDR files are just text inside. You can open one in Notepad, copy and paste the text into a post.

way cool, that's good info - thank you.

 

[OldogNewTrick]

way cool, that's good info - thank you.

you are welcome,

 

[kraigo]

Yes, thank you.

Our WDR files are quite similar. Both compute the sensitivity to around 96+ dB. I'd shrug it off, but that suggests that Faital's measured response is twice as efficient as the modeled value, which is pretty significant, IMO.

I'm not too worried about the Faital being loud enough or sounding bad, but I am curious if modeled efficiency is typically off this far.

KO

 

[johnk_10]

well, the Faitals certainly don't sound inefficient at all. my JBL K140's have a rated 98db sensitivity and the 15PR400's are a bit louder with the same watts running thru them.

 

[JGR]

Yup, and if memory serves, the 3015 (at least the LF anyway), comes out a few dB lower than the published spec as well so it may not just be a Faital thing.

 

[astack]

Yup, and if memory serves, the 3015 (at least the LF anyway), comes out a few dB lower than the published spec as well so it may not just be a Faital thing.

I've noticed the same with all drivers (Eminence, Faital, B&C, Beyma), at least with the order I enter parameters. My assumption's been that they're all knocked equally. It's like comparing rotten apples to rotten apples I guess - close enough?

Btw John amazing work with the cabs and your basses! I wish I had half your abilities.

 

[astack]

Btw, if anyone still is curious about the WinISD SPL estimates, I just realized that the calc'd SPL parameter is about 3 dB lower than what you get if you actually look at the SPL plot with a 1W/1m signal/distance. This brings it back up to within 3 dB of the spec sheet value.

For example, the 3015 specs at 103.8dB. WinISD calcs 97.9dB. With 1W/1m, the chart maxes out at 100.8dB.

I'm guessing here, but I think the -6dB between calc'd and spec has to do with WinISD assuming 1/2 space radiation in it's charts. This causes the "6dB baffle step." Therefore, the calc'd SPL is at full space radiation. The final 3dB is still a mystery to me though...

 

[johnk_10]

the other day i was running both the 3015 cab and the 15PR400 simultaneously with my SVT. although Eminence specs the 3015 to have a 100.8db sensitivity and Faital specs their's slightly lower at 100db, when i was sitting directly in front of them, the Faital cab was WAY louder. so much so that i had to put my ear almost right up to the 3015 cab to make sure that it was on, leading me to believe that the two manufacturers are not using the same method to measure them. don't get me wrong, the 3015's are efficient and loud, and i love them, but i would estimate that the 15PR400's at least 2-3db louder.

...........if you have a 100 to 200 watt amp, the Faitals will make you 'feel' that it has quite a bit more power than when using it with other, less efficient cabs.

 

[johnk_10]

just for the heck of it, i recorded a couple of clips using my ipod into the SVT7pro's rear panel input which bypasses the front end of the amp so it's pretty flat and has NO eq. i wanted to run some full range content (in this case Steeley Dan's, Do It Again) to help more obviously show the differences in the voicing of the 3015 vs the 15PR400's. they were recorded on my Zoom H4n with no normalizing at about 6" off of the top speaker. anyway, here they are:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

 

[fdeck]

Btw, if anyone still is curious about the WinISD SPL estimates, I just realized that the calc'd SPL parameter is about 3 dB lower than what you get if you actually look at the SPL plot with a 1W/1m signal/distance. This brings it back up to within 3 dB of the spec sheet value.

For example, the 3015 specs at 103.8dB. WinISD calcs 97.9dB. With 1W/1m, the chart maxes out at 100.8dB.

I'm guessing here, but I think the -6dB between calc'd and spec has to do with WinISD assuming 1/2 space radiation in it's charts. This causes the "6dB baffle step." Therefore, the calc'd SPL is at full space radiation. The final 3dB is still a mystery to me though...

I think that WinISD calculates the input voltage from the DC resistance and not from the nominal impedance. In other words, it uses V = Sqrt(1 W / Re) rather than V = Sqrt(1 W / Znom).

At least, when I make that assumption, I get my modeling program to agree with WinISD exactly.

 

[beans-on-toast]

just for the heck of it, ... i wanted to run some full range content (in this case Steeley Dan's, Do It Again) to help more obviously show the differences in the voicing of the 3015 vs the 15PR400's.

It is remarkable how these recordings reveal the extended higher end capabilities of the 15PR400's over the 3015's in your cab.

I can see using the 15PR400 for more than just bass.

 

[johnk_10]

yeah, but the 3015's are also smoother with full range contant than i anticipated. darker? yes, but their freq chart's 1.8K peakiness isn't evident (to me) in those clips.

 

[beans-on-toast]

I keep coming back to the conclusion that I can't decide which set I would want to go with since I like them both. They both have their strengths and applications.

It would be interesting to try both cabs side by side at the same time with a single amp.

 

[johnk_10]

yeah. i did do that but the 15PR400 cab is ALOT louder and kinda drowns the 3015 cab out.

 

[Exxcell]

I find that the STM and 3015s have a shrill to them where as the SVT-3015s seem more loving and mellow.

 

[astack]

Noticed the 15PR400 comes in 4 ohms, too. Considering weight, output and cost, a 1x15 would be hard to beat. $230, 8lbs, 400W, ~120dB. Paired with a mid-powered micro, it'd be a mean little 1-way system.

 

[astack]

I think that WinISD calculates the input voltage from the DC resistance and not from the nominal impedance. In other words, it uses V = Sqrt(1 W / Re) rather than V = Sqrt(1 W / Znom).

At least, when I make that assumption, I get my modeling program to agree with WinISD exactly.

Thanks fdeck. That's good to know. I'll be sure to double check my Re values to keep the sensitivity reasonable and comparable.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, hard to argue with either, but the Faital is the one I'd go with in a full range application.