Cyber Week powered speakers

[Big Hoss]

I know they are cheap, but if you need rock bottom powered loudspeakers musiciansfriend.com has the Invalid Link Removed powered loudspeakers on a cyber week deal for $129.99....

I see guys here a LOT that are looking for cheap powered speakers / PA systems, and while I don't think anyone will say this is "The best PA for Metal" it will certainly more than do the job for most weekend warrior bands that are needing to get started.

 

[modulusman]

Yeah those are perfect for bands who don't care about their sound and can't get a paying gig to save their life.

 

[Big Hoss]

Haters are gonna hate...

For those of us not driving our diamond encrusted Rolls Royces to the gigs this is actually a fairly reasonable deal. Yes they are cheap, and yes they are not exactly the best of the best. They will however get the job done, and when used properly I seriously doubt any audience would know the difference.

 

[Big Hoss]

Ignore the gear snobs and rock on!

 

[s0c9]

Haters are gonna hate...

For those of us not driving our diamond encrusted Rolls Royces to the gigs this is actually a fairly reasonable deal. Yes they are cheap, and yes they are not exactly the best of the best. They will however get the job done, and when used properly I seriously doubt any audience would know the difference.

It's more about budget than anything. There's nothing "wrong" with buying/using entry level gear.. as most folks go that route due to budget, or lack thereof.
However, longevity and reliability are not something you get at that price point. They are throw-away purchases - more expensive to repair than replace, lower quality components, lower quality audio, and so on.

The folks over at pro sound web (where the pro audio and weekend warrior SR types hang) have a maxim... "but once, cry once".
Loosely, that means you'll spend a lot more $$, time and effort getting from cheap to good vs going directly to good. In other words, save up and buy quality gear. However, need and budget mostly win out.

While I've been in the same position as you, I NOW KNOW (from personal experience) that I'd save up and go with nothing less than Yammy Club series, and won't touch Kustom/Harbinger level gear. It simply doesn't cut it.

PS: that 600w rating is peak.. their useful power output is probably in the 150-300w range. Fine for small venues, but definitely not "The best PA for Metal" and probably marginal for rock also.
YMMV

 

[Big Hoss]

It's more about budget than anything. There's nothing "wrong" with buying/using entry level gear.. as most folks go that route due to budget, or lack thereof.
However, longevity and reliability are not something you get at that price point. They are throw-away purchases - more expensive to repair than replace, lower quality components, lower quality audio, and so on.

The folks over at pro sound web (where the pro audio and weekend warrior SR types hang) have a maxim... "but once, cry once".
Loosely, that means you'll spend a lot more $$, time and effort getting from cheap to good vs going directly to good. In other words, save up and buy quality gear. However, need and budget mostly win out.

While I've been in the same position as you, I NOW KNOW (from personal experience) that I'd save up and go with nothing less than Yammy Club series, and won't touch Kustom/Harbinger level gear. It simply doesn't cut it.

PS: that 600w rating is peak.. their useful power output is probably in the 150-300w range. Fine for small venues, but definitely not "The best PA for Metal" and probably marginal for rock also.
YMMV

Well I certainly wouldn't argue any of your points because they're all perfectly valid, there's a large percentage of us that can't afford to buy premium gear right out of the gate.

Certainly we could save and scrimp but depending on where we are in our lives and our financial situations getting started on starting gear or having to wait to afford premium gear is all the difference between ever getting started at all. So yes you are very correct when you said that needs and budget win out.

This sale price from Musiciansfriend.com is certainly reflective of the fact that the speakers are effectively disposable but if they do the job and get a small band up and working on the cheap until they can generate enough gig money to buy the good stuff, well that could just make all the difference in the world to whether or not they get to gigging at all.

So I post this link up to help out the guys that are getting started obviously the guys that have the money to be able to afford the premium gear in the first place aren't going to care about a sale price on the cheap to begin with speakers.

And Modulusman is dead wrong... there are bands getting paid to play using these.

 

[s0c9]

Well I certainly wouldn't argue any of your points because they're all perfectly valid, there's a large percentage of us that can't afford to buy premium gear right out of the gate.

LOL - that was my point.
I also tried to emphasize the "buy once, cry once" approach.. because.. sooner or later, folks that start at the bottom of the MI gear chain and constantly upgrade (based on growth, need, etc.) will realize that they have spent 4x the amount getting to good gear than had they gone there directly and been getting quality sound and reliable gear all along.

I cite myself as a long-standing example. I learnt a lot along the way.

For example, if you've been playing bass for 15 yrs, would you really be happy playing live with a $150 bass or would you prefer one at the $1500 or $4500 price point?
I'm going to pass on the $150 bass.
Apply that same logic to PA gear.... at some stage, you need decent gear.
I'm not hating, but modulusman has a valid point -- the speakers above are great for a teenage band with beginners wanting to play out, or those with seriously limited funds..

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Well I certainly wouldn't argue any of your points because they're all perfectly valid, there's a large percentage of us that can't afford to buy premium gear right out of the gate.

Certainly we could save and scrimp but depending on where we are in our lives and our financial situations getting started on starting gear or having to wait to afford premium gear is all the difference between ever getting started at all. So yes you are very correct when you said that needs and budget win out.

This sale price from Musiciansfriend.com is certainly reflective of the fact that the speakers are effectively disposable but if they do the job and get a small band up and working on the cheap until they can generate enough gig money to buy the good stuff, well that could just make all the difference in the world to whether or not they get to gigging at all.

So I post this link up to help out the guys that are getting started obviously the guys that have the money to be able to afford the premium gear in the first place aren't going to care about a sale price on the cheap to begin with speakers.

And Modulusman is dead wrong... there are bands getting paid to play using these.

Had a set of these. They are loud. Not great for anything beyond vocals. But very serviceable as monitors!

 

[/\/\3phist0]

LOL - that was my point.
I also tried to emphasize the "buy once, cry once" approach.. because.. sooner or later, folks that start at the bottom of the MI gear chain and constantly upgrade (based on growth, need, etc.) will realize that they have spent 4x the amount getting to good gear than had they gone there directly and been getting quality sound and reliable gear all along.

I cite myself as a long-standing example. I learnt a lot along the way.

For example, if you've been playing bass for 15 yrs, would you really be happy playing live with a $150 bass or would you prefer one at the $1500 or $4500 price point?
I'm going to pass on the $150 bass.
Apply that same logic to PA gear.... at some stage, you need decent gear.
I'm not hating, but modulusman has a valid point -- the speakers above are great for a teenage band with beginners wanting to play out, or those with seriously limited funds..

Uhm I play happily a 100.00 bass. And several under 300.. cash spent does not equal value.
A crappy speaker that I can get now and gig with is better than shouting loudly

 

[s0c9]

Uhm I play happily a 100.00 bass. And several under 300.. cash spent does not equal value.
A crappy speaker that I can get now and gig with is better than shouting loudly

I hear ya.. there are exceptions to every rule of thumb

 

[Big Hoss]

LOL - that was my point.
I also tried to emphasize the "buy once, cry once" approach.. because.. sooner or later, folks that start at the bottom of the MI gear chain and constantly upgrade (based on growth, need, etc.) will realize that they have spent 4x the amount getting to good gear than had they gone there directly and been getting quality sound and reliable gear all along.

I cite myself as a long-standing example. I learnt a lot along the way.

For example, if you've been playing bass for 15 yrs, would you really be happy playing live with a $150 bass or would you prefer one at the $1500 or $4500 price point?
I'm going to pass on the $150 bass.
Apply that same logic to PA gear.... at some stage, you need decent gear.
I'm not hating, but modulusman has a valid point -- the speakers above are great for a teenage band with beginners wanting to play out, or those with seriously limited funds..

I've had my at the time $500.00 bass for 13 years now, and honestly I prefer playing my $109 SX bass. Price point be darned there is an awful lot to be said about the feel of a specific instrument and while more expensive instruments are likely to have the it factor it's not always a matter of funding. Having said that you won't find things like first act or silver tone equipment in my inventory they just don't meet my standards.

 

[Big Hoss]

Had a set of these. They are loud. Not great for anything beyond vocals. But very serviceable as monitors!

I wouldn't expect them to perform at the level of Premium equipment like Boss and others, in while I wouldn't call them great by any means they certainly seem to be serviceable for the bands that are using them.

I have recently seen a long established band that works my area using these speakers at an outdoor event at a beach house close to one I did earlier that same weekend, they certainly did the job and nobody in the audience could tell the difference if they were running through the cheap speakers or through $1,500 apiece speakers. Or if they did they certainly didn't care.

I am fairly certain they used these instead of their normal Yamaha rig in order to protect the Yamaha rig from exposure to the salt air and extreme humidity of the beach venue. It is a wise move and I understand if you are digging three or more nights a week you will want something better than this in probably less than a year but let's face it if you are buying these speakers chances are you aren't gigging more than once a month and that's fine that's the market they're intended for heck even two or three times a month These should do the job and you must admit if they get stolen you won't be out that much money and that's a good thing.

 

[blowinblue]

I hadn't thought about Harbinger in a long time. Thanks for the memory jog. Back in the early 1980's I was referred to Harbinger by a music store in Fresno CA for a custom build. It was a 'lightweight' 2x15 cab designed around my Gauss 4580 woofers. Build quality was outstanding and it sounded very good. I just did an internet search about the company but the only bit of history I could find was from the Harmony Central Forum. The quote below was posted on that forum by none other than our own agedhorse back in March 2007 in a thread inquiring about the newer Harbinger stuff.

"Interesting, this is a new product taking the name of an old and well respected company that sold speakers designed by Mark Wayne, from the S.F. Bay Area. He ran with the same crowd as John Meyer (Meyer Sound), John DeLoren (Apogee Sound), Jim Gamble (Gamble Assoc. later part of Crest Audio) etc.

The [old] product has nothing to do with what's being sold today. Mark's original designs used all pro JBL components and much of it is still operating today."

This matches up with my memory. I recall they were based in the Bay Area, were primarily into PA cabinets and did a bit of custom work on the side. Sadly, I sold that cab along with the G-K 800RB that was used to power it in the early part of a 17 year hiatus from playing music.

M. M.

 

[Omega Monkey]

The entire core of my PA cost about $615. That's 2 pairs of speakers (mains and monitors), 2 power amps, and a small mixer. I believe (don't remember off the top of my head) it's all made in the USA from high quality, well respected, and reliable brands (CV, JBL, QSC, Carver, and Mackie). When I do live sound gigs where I bring my own gear, I pretty much start around $150 and go up to 2-3x that, depending on the details and what I'm bringing. I've done probably half a dozen of these gigs this year which is the first year I'm actively pursuing it. You do the math. Not to mention all the freelance gigs I've done on venue systems or the band's system.

So you don't have to spend a ton of money to get good stuff, you just have to be patient, do your research, and then watch CL and/or ebay for good deals, know how to recognize them, and then be able to jump on them before someone else gets it. I got great deals on all my stuff which is why it was SOOOOO cheap, but if I can go 5 for 5 on deals, the average person should be able to go 2 for 5 or 3 for 5 if they're paying attention.

And guess what, even though all my stuff is pretty much 10-25 years old, it all sounds and performs great, because it was built to last. So while the cheap chinese made stuff might last a year or 2 before it starts having issues, I expect to get an average of at least 5-10 years out of all my stuff (and everything but the QSC is 10 plus years old) and/or sell it for as much or more than I paid for it.

You have to wonder if a powered speaker is $130, and the retailer has already marked it up close to 100% from what the manufacturer marked up probably 100% from their costs, you're looking at speakers that cost $30-50 to make. And even at chinese labor rates, you have to wonder what you can really get for that. But when CL is littered with PA gear that people are selling either because the band broke up, or they just want to upgrade to something newer, not a whole lot more money can get you some pretty good stuff. For $300-500 people often sell used small PAs that might have some pretty decent gear in them.

 

[Big Hoss]

The entire core of my PA cost about $615. That's 2 pairs of speakers (mains and monitors), 2 power amps, and a small mixer. I believe (don't remember off the top of my head) it's all made in the USA from high quality, well respected, and reliable brands (CV, JBL, QSC, Carver, and Mackie). When I do live sound gigs where I bring my own gear, I pretty much start around $150 and go up to 2-3x that, depending on the details and what I'm bringing. I've done probably half a dozen of these gigs this year which is the first year I'm actively pursuing it. You do the math. Not to mention all the freelance gigs I've done on venue systems or the band's system.

So you don't have to spend a ton of money to get good stuff, you just have to be patient, do your research, and then watch CL and/or ebay for good deals, know how to recognize them, and then be able to jump on them before someone else gets it. I got great deals on all my stuff which is why it was SOOOOO cheap, but if I can go 5 for 5 on deals, the average person should be able to go 2 for 5 or 3 for 5 if they're paying attention.

And guess what, even though all my stuff is pretty much 10-25 years old, it all sounds and performs great, because it was built to last. So while the cheap chinese made stuff might last a year or 2 before it starts having issues, I expect to get an average of at least 5-10 years out of all my stuff (and everything but the QSC is 10 plus years old) and/or sell it for as much or more than I paid for it.

You have to wonder if a powered speaker is $130, and the retailer has already marked it up close to 100% from what the manufacturer marked up probably 100% from their costs, you're looking at speakers that cost $30-50 to make. And even at chinese labor rates, you have to wonder what you can really get for that. But when CL is littered with PA gear that people are selling either because the band broke up, or they just want to upgrade to something newer, not a whole lot more money can get you some pretty good stuff. For $300-500 people often sell used small PAs that might have some pretty decent gear in them.

You guys sound really lucky to live in areas where Craigslist even infrequently has decent PA here on the cheap it never comes up here and actually the Harbingers that Musicians Friend has on sale for $130 frequently sell on Craigslist here for $150.00.

Not every local market is flush with bargains on musical equipment unfortunately. The good thing is that means that where I live at least there's a good chance somebody could pick these things up hold on to them for a little while and sell them for exactly what they paid for them or maybe a little more.

For what it's worth I seriously doubt at $130.00 musiciansfriend.com is actually making a penny on these. At this price point these have got to be a loss leader item, meaning they actually take a small loss on selling these in exchange for buying goodwill and loyal customers. It's a common tactic among major retailers. So assume for the moment that the Chinese factory that manufactures these is actually manufacturing them for I'll be a little more generous on the production cost and you and say 70% of the cost that they're selling them to the retailer at now assume the retailer is buying these for I don't know $120 well 70% of $120 is $84. Well that's not a ton of money for a little bit of silicone some plastic some cheap metal other miscellaneous in Chinese labor there an awful lot of high quality products that are being made at that cost. I very much I am under no illusion whatsoever and I'm not recommending them to people as being a premium item. What I am saying is for those bands that are just starting out and are having to struggle against the hard realities of budget trying to get going these can really help your band get some traction.

 

[miiitch]

seriously, a poopy PA is one of the worst things you can ever buy as a musician.

it´s not about the brand´s name written on it, nor the fact that a cheapo plastic enclosure might break a lot more easily than a well-made one... that´s perfectly fine. Take good care of it and no one will ever notice, unless the electronic components break down.
But: the sound will be THAT awful, people are going to complain about the ear-piercing distortion very soon. And even worse: there´s no way you can get rid of it.

No need to spend 2k for a single loudspeaker box. But you should at least try them out and not pick the worst of the bunch

 

[PeteBass51]

I picked up a small pa about 6 months ago. Needed something good and light. Decided to go with Mackie's powered speaker system. I tried out Gemini, Behringer, Kustom, and some others. To me, the Mackie just had better sound and I had seen a lot of them being used. Bought from Mackie Direct. Powered Thump 15's and a 12 channel mixer. A little over 500.00 including cables. Everything was refurb and came with a warranty. I've used this system over 30 times for small venues and it has worked out good. JBL or Bose would have 4-5X the price and I'm not sure it would have made a difference. This rig and my TC250 fits in the back of a Forrester, no item over 32 lbs.

 

[Big Hoss]

I picked up a small pa about 6 months ago. Needed something good and light. Decided to go with Mackie's powered speaker system. I tried out Gemini, Behringer, Kustom, and some others. To me, the Mackie just had better sound and I had seen a lot of them being used. Bought from Mackie Direct. Powered Thump 15's and a 12 channel mixer. A little over 500.00 including cables. Everything was refurb and came with a warranty. I've used this system over 30 times for small venues and it has worked out good. JBL or Bose would have 4-5X the price and I'm not sure it would have made a difference. This rig and my TC250 fits in the back of a Forrester, no item over 32 lbs.

The Mackie Thump is a decent low dollar rig although the ones I have been around seem to be a bit hollow in the mid range.

For what it's worth, our Powered PA speakers, Alto TS115A's (pair), sound really good, and have enough to them to run DI into the mixer, and through the PA speakers for bass, both guitars, and vocal and they sound great. Maybe not Bose great, but then again, the crowds we play to (less than 100 people typically) love it...

The bands I have seen using these Harbingers aren't all over the place, but there is a younger, not even sure what to call their genre, but I would define it as "screamo" metalish band, running cheap gear, Behringer Ultrabass combo, a Crate Blue Voodoo guitar amp etc... And the sounded as good as they can for their style of music... It wasn't exactly super loud, but it was more than loud enough to be enjoyable.

 

[tjh]

... thanks for the heads-up, Hoss ... I steered a drummer friend there, as he was looking for a cheap powered monitor .. should be just fine for him, just monitoring vocals and one acoustic guitar ...

 

[modulusman]

Well I certainly wouldn't argue any of your points because they're all perfectly valid, there's a large percentage of us that can't afford to buy premium gear right out of the gate.

Certainly we could save and scrimp but depending on where we are in our lives and our financial situations getting started on starting gear or having to wait to afford premium gear is all the difference between ever getting started at all. So yes you are very correct when you said that needs and budget win out.

This sale price from Musiciansfriend.com is certainly reflective of the fact that the speakers are effectively disposable but if they do the job and get a small band up and working on the cheap until they can generate enough gig money to buy the good stuff, well that could just make all the difference in the world to whether or not they get to gigging at all.

So I post this link up to help out the guys that are getting started obviously the guys that have the money to be able to afford the premium gear in the first place aren't going to care about a sale price on the cheap to begin with speakers.

And Modulusman is dead wrong... there are bands getting paid to play using these.

Not where I live they don't. I have been out to see a lot of local bands this year and most of them have at least 5 grand in PA gear. I can think of only 2 bands out of the 8 or 10 I have seen that are not using at least one sub. One band is a 3 piece of older guys around 60 that have a pair of DXR15s and a Mackie mixer. They are using one Bose L1 as a monitor. That system would cost about 4k.