dead spots in all fender jazz basses???

[Folmeister]

I have found noticeable dead spots on two of my basses, my @#$%^ Stingray and my Rick. Damn unlucky of me. But, I am an advocate of the Fat Finger, big time! I now have them on all of my basses regardless of dead spots and they really do work. Plus, in the bell brass finish, they look really cool and not everybody has one!

 

[notabob]

My old MIM fretless Jazz had the dead spot, but I never noticed it on my Stingray. I'll have to check it tonight. My fretless Ibanez (Luthite body, ebonol fingerboard and maple neck) has one of the liveliest boards I've ever played. The notes almost jump off it.

same here. my fretted cort curbow has an ebanol fingerboard, luthite body, and maple neck with no dead spots at all. my peavey millennium 5 has a pauo ferro board and alder body and i have a slight dead spot on the 6th fret of the g. i can live with it, its just a little weird.

 

[nonsqtr]

When you're making a bass, can you tell ahead of time what to expect in terms of a dead spot? In other words, can you tap the slab of ash somehow, or test the neck, and figure out how bad the dead spot is going to be? Or do you have to wait till the bass is finished, and live with whatever you end up with?

 

[Michael Jewels]

I checked all my basses last night, and this is what I found; The liveliest fretboards were:

1) The Jack Casady! Jack'll never let you down! Since I bought it, I knew the Jackbass had great fundamentals and harmonics, but I didn't think it would beat out all the others. No dead spots.

2) The Ibanez Musician! Another surprise! It came in slightly behind the Jackbass. I guess the fact that it's neck through and has an ebony board has a lot to do with it. The most consistent board. No dead spots.

3) The Ibanez EDA905F. I thought this bass would have been first, but not so. No dead spots.

4) The Yamaha BBN5 II. This is the $400 bass I'm always talking about. Very smooth overall, and the second most consistent board. No dead spots.

5) The Stingray. Yes, my Stingray came in last! While it has no dead spots, some notes ring noticeably longer than others. The darkest sounding of all the boards, and the least consistent board of them all.
This blew my mind.

Note: All basses were played unplugged, and while the differences among the basses were noticeable, they were not dramatic.

Mike

 

[bassclef112]

Dead spots are a fact of life for a lot of basses. Mr.Sadowsky's recommendation for the Fat Finger is absolutely on the money. I have 3 and they really do work. The reason for this is that by attaching them to the headstock they either eliminate or change the resonant frequency that causes the deadspot, and they're particularly effective on Fenders. Granted there are Fenders that don't have them (you lucky owners know who you are), but most do. The headstock is the culprit. It vibrates sympathetically to the frequency that corresponds to the 6th fret on the G string and cancels out the fundamental to varying degrees (note I'm addressing Fenders in particular, other basses may vary). Attaching the clamp will at the very least move it closer to the nut or at best pretty much eliminate it. Move it around till you find the best spot.

It gets a bit weirder with multi-piece necks. The spot can be in the middle of the neck (like 10th fret on the D string for example). These clamps still work but may move it to an even less desirable spot.

I have a Status Kingbass with a graphite neck - the deadspot is at the 13th fret on the G string! On my Steinberger XL2 it's the 12th fret on the A. Not a big deal on these headless basses. If you're a "thud" kind of player that likes old flats these deadspots aren't much of an issue. Sustain is a big part of my style so I try to minimize their impact. Get a FatFinger - you'll notice the difference.

 

[DW]

The headstock is not the culprit. It's just part of a complex equation.

Fatfingers sometimes help, sometimes not. I know many more people who have tried them and taken them off than have kept them. But in any case, they can't change the actual stiffness of the neck shaft, so at best all they can do is change the resonant frequency slightly.

No matter what Roger Sadowsky says, it has nothing to do with 34" scale. I've played 33 1/4" scale Ricks with deadspots. I've played a 35" scale graphite Modulus with a deadspot in the "Fender position". Yet I have a Precision with no deadspots anywhere.

I've played Strats with deadspots. Yep, guitars have deadspots too. Doubt it? Look here: Invalid Link Removed . His descriptions and research are worth reading.

He says that the effect is dominated by vibration perpendicular to the fretboard. Rick Turner has said that there is also a torsional resonance that is severe, and that it's particularly strong in Fender-style necks. In context, I understood him to mean Fender-style headstocks.

There are a couple of schools of thought. One is that more stiffness will move the resonant frequency of the neck out of the range of the fundamentals so that any deadpots will only be affecting the harmonics. The other is that more mass in the neck will resist the transfer of energy from the strings into the neck. And I don't think anyone has all the answers.

 

[notabob]

in this pdf file i found on musiciansfriend, it describes the physics of the fat finger and it specifically says that they are an "incredible" fix for that fender jazz bass with the "disappearing c note" syndrome. so, im saving up a few bucks and gettin me a fat finger.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

So you believe everything musicians friend tells you.....?

 

[notabob]

...um...yes.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Marketing is easier than I thought!!

Well - to some people anyway!!

 

[Treena Foster]

Originally posted by bassclef112
Dead spots are a fact of life for a lot of basses. Mr.Sadowsky's recommendation for the Fat Finger is absolutely on the money. I have 3 and they really do work. The reason for this is that by attaching them to the headstock they either eliminate or change the resonant frequency that causes the deadspot, and they're particularly effective on Fenders. Granted there are Fenders that don't have them (you lucky owners know who you are), but most do. The headstock is the culprit. It vibrates sympathetically to the frequency that corresponds to the 6th fret on the G string and cancels out the fundamental to varying degrees (note I'm addressing Fenders in particular, other basses may vary). Attaching the clamp will at the very least move it closer to the nut or at best pretty much eliminate it. Move it around till you find the best spot.

It gets a bit weirder with multi-piece necks. The spot can be in the middle of the neck (like 10th fret on the D string for example). These clamps still work but may move it to an even less desirable spot.

I have a Status Kingbass with a graphite neck - the deadspot is at the 13th fret on the G string! On my Steinberger XL2 it's the 12th fret on the A. Not a big deal on these headless basses. If you're a "thud" kind of player that likes old flats these deadspots aren't much of an issue. Sustain is a big part of my style so I try to minimize their impact. Get a FatFinger - you'll notice the difference.

Do you have a link to " The FatFinger" I would like to read more about this as you explained it!

Treena


Is this what you are talking about?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[notabob]

treena, that is what we are talking about.
there is info here Invalid Link Removed
hope this helps.

 

[Treena Foster]

Originally posted by notabob
treena, that is what we are talking about.
there is info here Invalid Link Removed
hope this helps.

Thank you for the file!


I have been a recording engineer and bassist for 30 years and I have never ever heard or seen this until now. I wonder if that means anything?

Has anyone used these live or in the studio?

Treena

 

[DW]

I have been a recording engineer and bassist for 30 years and I have never ever heard or seen this until now. I wonder if that means anything?

Bingo! Despite the wondrous ad copy, if they were that effective, you would see them much more often than you actually do. The only person of note who uses one is Joe Satriani, and IIRC he uses it to add mass for more sustain on his lightweight guitar, not to eliminate deadspots.

The same company (Groove Tubes) used to make a Fathead. Same priciple, it was a brass plate that was cut to the shape of Fender (and some other) headstocks and fit on the back of the headstock under the tuners. If it was so effective, why did they discontinue it?

Like I said, the best it can do is change the frequency of the deadspot, and from comments I've read over the years, it sometimes does that. Sometimes it lessens the deadspot, and more often, it does nothing at all.

The Fatfinger is just a nice-looking C-clamp with a fancy price tag.

 

[DW]

It also appears that they have toned down their claims quite a bit from the sales pitch brochure posted by notabob. Now they are only saying it "helps tune out dead spots". Link Removed

 

[notabob]

hmm, i think ill give it a try as soon as i can get some money and ill let you know what i think. it could be a while tho.

 

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

Billy Sheehan uses the Fatfinger, but judging from results using a C-clamp, I don't think it can eliminate deadspots, just shift them towards the nut- and you might find a deadspot appears on the D string.

 

[Treena Foster]

Originally posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator
Billy Sheehan uses the Fatfinger, but judging from results using a C-clamp, I don't think it can eliminate deadspots, just shift them towards the nut- and you might find a deadspot appears on the D string.

So, the answer for dead spots on a neck is to purchse a bass without dead spots? Right?

Treena

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by DW


Bingo! Despite the wondrous ad copy, if they were that effective, you would see them much more often than you actually do.


The Fatfinger is just a nice-looking C-clamp with a fancy price tag.

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield

Marketing is easier than I thought!!

Well - to some people anyway!!

 

[pilotjones]

Every neck has resonant frequencies. As the neck resonates, there are nodes (areas of no movement) and antinodes (areas of movement). As the Fleischer article points out, a dead spot results when, in playing a note which is the same frequency as a resonant frequency of the neck, the fret position physically coincides with an antinode zone.

The effect can be either a "dead spot" or a "wolf tone" if the wave interference is destructive (phased so as to oppose the string's action), or a boomy note if it is constructive (phased so as to reinforce the string's action).

These actions are considerations both with guitar-based instruments and with violin-family instruments.

Changing the mass of the headstock (such as by using a FatFinger) can eliminate a dead spot. It does this by one or more of the following effects:
- changing the resonant frequency of the neck
- moving the nodes and antinodes so that they no longer physically line up with the fretted note.
A FatFinger does not always work because it sometimes it just shifts the dead spot. For example, before the FF, your neck has a strong resonance at the pitch C#, and an antinode at the 6th fret. This results in a dead note at the 6th fret of your G string. But after FF, you could end up with a resonant peak at the frequency of B, and an antinode at the 4th fret. This results in a dead note at the 4th fret of your G string.

It is of note that Leo Fender built a prototype bass where he gradually cut more and more mass off of the headstock, with the aim of finding the right size to get rid of dead spots. He ended up with a well-performing headless bass. However, the company decided not to market it because of the perceived difficulty in selling such an unusual (headless) instrument. That difficulty continues to this day, despite the fact that headless basses tend to have fewer if any dead spots (as evidenced by previous discussions here on TB).

I do not have the URL of the article, but if JP chimes in, I believe he has it.