Dead Spots on Fenders..Huh?

[steweDbass]

Never had any dead spots. Sure some notes didn't sustain as long as others (naturally), but they certainly could sustain for over a few seconds on any fret, and I have had over 60 basses (not all Fender though but some made by Fujigen who make MIJ Fender). Mostly they were MIJ, but some US Fender too. I don't think they'd let a professional grade bass out of the factory in this day and age if it had dead spots. It may also be an issue of set-up, action vs truss torque etc. I always play around 1.5 - 2mm action with a flattened out neck. Maybe check your set-up if you haven't already

 

[BassHappy]

No need to get your panties in a wad. Cheers.

It's always a good policy to discuss the subject of the OP and not initiate personal attacks on the poster.



Cheers

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net

 

[z65]

no offence, but not everyone is aware of what really is a dead spot
i found them in a variable percentage in every bass i played and owned, from big to medium, to irrelevant

 

[mongo2]

Never had any dead spots. Sure some notes didn't sustain as long as others (naturally)

Those notes that don't sustain as long as others are dead spots. It's just a question of degree.

 

[BassHappy]

The "mississippi four-count" is not nearly so rigorous a test as the "polyphiloprogenitive four-count." I personally prefer to test using the bass opening of Jefferson Airplane's "Won't You Try."
If the note sustains through that, then IMO it's usable, dead spot or no. Perhaps we should refine the discussion to "dead spots which create unusable notes." Those are the ones folks tend to really notice.

BassHappy, I was making a humorous objective observation, not suggesting you change your four-count. Guess I should have used an emoticon. I started playing in '65 and by '69 was ready to chuck it, SOLELY because of dead spots, so I've got some skin in this discussion. I suppose it's sort of like late Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on obscenity: "I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it." Same with dead spots; we know it when we hear (or feel) it.

Yeah, admittedly - it is all really simple for most of us.

You plug in - pluck each note consistently one at a time - and it either sustains or decays. End of story. No other choices that I see. Use whatever reference you like as far as how QUICKLY it decays - in the end it doesn't matter at all - because a dead spot is a dead spot. Dead spots decay, and in my experience, they decay quickly.

YMMV.

My only point all along has been - for a reason unbeknownst to me - the typical 4-7 fret dead spots on the D-G stings on Fender long scales - which I experienced first hand - simply don't exist on Fender medium scales. Truthfully, I can't find any on the eight medium scale Fenders I own - and I KNOW a dead spot when I hear one. Me and dead spots are - shall we say - intimately acquainted.

What I find interesting is all the "experts" who have exactly ZERO experience with medium scale FENDER basses who tell me how wrong I am. I think we are talking about FENDER basses, are we not? - Last I looked - that is the name of the thread:

Dead Spots on Fenders..Huh?

Many times talking about basses is like dancing about perfume - I think this is one of them.

GretschWretch - Thanks for taking the time to explain. I thought you were some mad genius scientist (you probably are?) who had discovered an amazing new dead spot examination that no one knew about.

Best to all,

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net

 

[bass12]

I don't think they'd let a professional grade bass out of the factory in this day and age if it had dead spots.

 

[steweDbass]

Ok so what is the definition of a "dead spot" A "dead" spot decays very quickly in my understanding, and according to some luthiers who test their instruments before they leave the factory, a dead spot will decay within a few seconds, if it sustains for longer than 5 or 6 seconds with no vibrato it's not really "dead" so to speak, also if you use vibrato you may get past these so called "dead" spots... Maybe it's possible to lengthen the sustain by setting up your neck and bridge differently....just a suggestion, not saying it's necessarily going to work for everyone. According to some other posters here every note is technically a dead spot which seems a little nonsensical, no note sustains forever after all! The long scale vs short scale mentioned is interesting, I have not owned anything other than 34" or 35" scale basses, but sustain was OK on all frets and all strings. (except up past the 15th fret on the lower strings)

 

[steweDbass]

Those notes that don't sustain as long as others are dead spots. It's just a question of degree.

If a note decays very quickly, like within a few seconds then it is most definitely "dead", as we know the nature of the guitar means that the higher you go the shorter the vibration of the strings so high notes should (technically and in theory) decay faster than low notes, naturally. Builders do check these things for consistency, if a manufacturer is putting out an instrument that has notes that don't sustain for more than a few seconds on any fret 1 -12 on any string, then either it is faulty, or the set up could be adjusted to optimise sustain. That's all I'm saying. It's not quite as simple as we may think, action, climate, string guage type, etc etc all affect sustain.

 

[steweDbass]

Yeah, admittedly - it is all really simple for most of us.

You plug in - pluck each note consistently one at a time - and it either sustains or decays. End of story. No other choices that I see. Use whatever reference you like as far as how QUICKLY it decays - in the end it doesn't matter at all - because a dead spot is a dead spot. Dead spots decay, and in my experience, they decay quickly.

YMMV.

My only point all along has been - for a reason unbeknownst to me - the typical 4-7 fret dead spots on the D-G stings on Fender long scales - which I experienced first hand - simply don't exist on Fender medium scales. Truthfully, I can't find any on the eight medium scale Fenders I own - and I KNOW a dead spot when I hear one. Me and dead spots are - shall we say - intimately acquainted.

What I find interesting is all the "experts" who have exactly ZERO experience with medium scale FENDER basses who tell me how wrong I am. I think we are talking about FENDER basses, are we not? - Last I looked - that is the name of the thread:

Dead Spots on Fenders..Huh?

Many times talking about basses is like dancing about perfume - I think this is one of them.

GretschWretch - Thanks for taking the time to explain. I thought you were some mad genius scientist (you probably are?) who had discovered an amazing new dead spot examination that no one knew about.

Best to all,

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net

I think GretchWretch although joking, is actually not that far from the truth! LOL XD
We have to take into account too that many instruments change with weather, so need adjustment to optimise sustain. That is why some builders are developing build methods to minimize the effects of climate on the woods, long scale, short or medium, it's irrelevant to them, they all should acheive a minimum of sustain. Anyway, I have had long scale basses, admittedly not Fender, the fenders I had were all medium, but none of them had notes that had less than 3 or 4 seconds of sustain (the latter being a whole two bars at 120bpm). If this was the case on your long scale Fenders then either there's an issue with the build or the set-up. If not then maybe your sustain requirements are above average That's all I'm saying.

 

[steweDbass]

I have looked for these spots on my basses and I just can't find one. Is it possible that these dead notes are a setup issue? I am very meticulous when I set up my basses...I get the action literally as low as it can go with no buzz. I HAVE experienced something similar to what you all are describing when the action was to low.

Exactly, set up is key!

 

[mongo2]

If a note decays very quickly, like within a few seconds then it is most definitely "dead", as we know the nature of the guitar means that the higher you go the shorter the vibration of the strings so high notes should (technically and in theory) decay faster than low notes, naturally. Builders do check these things for consistency, if a manufacturer is putting out an instrument that has notes that don't sustain for more than a few seconds on any fret 1 -12 on any string, then either it is faulty, or the set up could be adjusted to optimise sustain. That's all I'm saying. It's not quite as simple as we may think, action, climate, string guage type, etc etc all affect sustain.

Like I said, it's a question of degree. Apparently, mass production doesn't lend itself to check for consistency of the note decay times because there are a huge number of instruments made since 1951 that have dead spots. I do agree it is a defect, and it's one of the main reasons I play shorter scale basses since they are much more even sounding.

 

[kurosawa]

I find them all the time, that's all the proof I need. I've also found that short scale basses are much better at controlling/eliminating dead and hot spots than long scale.

Yeah, I think the reason SS basses don't suffer as much is because of lower string tension, but I wouldn't guess WHY that might be so.

I sometimes wish I didn't notice them, it'd make instrument selection much easier.

Well if you have the outlook that whatever note you're playing is all there is (and I admire that approach), you can't avoid noticing.

 

[BassHappy]

Hey TB'ers

The only solution I have ever heard of that can work is a neck swap.

Why don't a couple of you Fender long scalers who have serious dead spots get together - swap necks on a trial basis and see if it fixes them? In my limited understanding - and in listening carefully to those in the know - it isn't about the body or the neck specifically - but it is about how those three pieces of wood interact with each other (neck, fingerboard, body) and I have seen numerous postings where a neck swap can eliminate the problem.

Posters, until you experience a SERIOUS dead spot issue - you just won't understand that no amount of swapping strings, re-doing the set up - even using the silly looking clip-on doodad on the headstock - will completely cure the problem. Of course, certain things will give you an incremental improvement - but fix it? Sorry, no - not for the serious dead spot problems. It's not gonna happen.

I loved my Jazz bass in spite of it's shortcomings and I tried EVERYTHING under the sun - except for swapping out the neck. Several luthiers tried everything for me with no success. I wish I would have thought to try a neck swap - if it would have fixed the problem I would still have that bass today.

Just a suggestion.

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net

 

[DwaynieAD]

Haven't found one on my Fender yet. My MM has one tho.

 

[radicaldreamers]

Those notes that don't sustain as long as others are dead spots. It's just a question of degree.

You should have made this more clear. If you're calling any spot that's "less alive" a dead spot, then sure, every bass has some. Personally I don't consider every note with slightly less sustain a dead spot and by that count my bass has none.

 

[mongo2]

You should have made this more clear. If you're calling any spot that's "less alive" a dead spot, then sure, every bass has some. Personally I don't consider every note with slightly less sustain a dead spot and by that count my bass has none.

I don't know how I can make it more clear than by saying that it's just a question of degree.

It's also a matter of personal preference. From what you've posted I gather that you don't care about what you think are minor dead spots but others might not think they're so minor.

 

[Showdown]

You should have made this more clear. If you're calling any spot that's "less alive" a dead spot, then sure, every bass has some. Personally I don't consider every note with slightly less sustain a dead spot and by that count my bass has none.

To me, a dead spot is any note that is noticeably lower in volume/fundamental than the other notes. Sustain has very little to do with it to me, because it is noticeable immediately, not after a 4 count or anything like that. The L2000 I was playing last night at practice has a small one that isn't bad, but you can hear it. I have had a bass before that when you play the note there was a very noticeable drop in everything at the G string 6th fret. Essentially unusable. In a band with heavy guitars/drums where it is hard to cut through anyway that note can completely disappear in the mix.

 

[DwaynieAD]

every bass by every manufacturer has a chance to have dead spots. I don't understand the witch hunt singling out Fender and I don't understand those blindly defending fender.

 

[bass12]

every bass by every manufacturer has a chance to have dead spots. I don't understand the witch hunt singling out Fender and I don't understand those blindly defending fender.

+1 Basses are imperfect things and I would say that it's impossible to have absolute consistency right across the neck of any bass. There are variations in length of fundamental vs harmonic sustain and sometimes the sustain of the fundamental is short enough for the note to be deemed a "dead spot". It happens on Fenders, on Sadowskys, on MTDs on Alembics, on Modulus - on any kind of bass. It's not a defect - it's simply a matter of physics.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Never had any dead spots. Sure some notes didn't sustain as long as others (naturally), but they certainly could sustain for over a few seconds on any fret, and I have had over 60 basses (not all Fender though but some made by Fujigen who make MIJ Fender). Mostly they were MIJ, but some US Fender too. I don't think they'd let a professional grade bass out of the factory in this day and age if it had dead spots. It may also be an issue of set-up, action vs truss torque etc. I always play around 1.5 - 2mm action with a flattened out neck. Maybe check your set-up if you haven't already

You have lived a blessed life! I like the same sort of set up, but have experienced many dead spots.

The least worst is the D on the G string, as if you let the open D ring in sympathy it isn't so bad. But often it's not in that spot...