Double Bass Dead spots on new carved double bass

[jaybary]

hi bassists. hope everyone is doing well
Recently I bought a new carved bass at Kolstein shop made in New York/Hungary this year. It's very warm sound and balanced carved bass with good projection as a brand new bass so I decided to buy it, but I realized these days that there are two Ab dead spots on D and A string (third position) and Ab on A string is worse than D string. Is It because bass is not opened up yet or sound post position that can be fixed? I changed strings too but same result. I want to go back to the shop but It's pretty far from where I live so don't have time these days because of my schedule. just curious about your opinions and experiences if It is easy problem to be solved. Thanks and have a good day

 

[Carl Hillman]

hi bassists. hope everyone is doing well
Recently I bought a new carved bass at Kolstein shop made in New York/Hungary this year. It's very warm sound and balanced carved bass with good projection as a brand new bass so I decided to buy it, but I realized these days that there are two Ab dead spots on D and A string (third position) and Ab on A string is worse than D string. Is It because bass is not opened up yet or sound post position that can be fixed? I changed strings too but same result. I want to go back to the shop but It's pretty far from where I live so don't have time these days because of my schedule. just curious about your opinions and experiences if It is easy problem to be solved. Thanks and have a good day

Are you sure these "dead spots" aren't wolf tones (which almost all string instruments have)?

 

[jaybary]

Are you sure these "dead spots" aren't wolf tones (which almost all string instruments have)?

It does not sustain as much as other notes and with muffled sound when I pluck Ab note in A string

 

[Reiska]

Those are propably wolf tones, as Carl Hillman suggests. With the bow there`s a howling sound and when plucked they tend to sound pronounced and with shorter decay. Not a big deal, most basses have them, my luthier even said that they are sign of quality build as they normally need a thin enough top plate to exist. There are plenty of solutions to deal with them, do a search here. A trip to the luthier might help too!

 

[fu22ba55]

It does not sustain as much as other notes and with muffled sound when I pluck

Smarter and much more experienced people will reply, but here's my two cents:

Ab is a notorious frequency for wolf tones--which could be behaving like dead spots, sure.

But a brand new carved bass does take a while to open up. I got a brand new carved bass in April and it's just starting to really come into it's own. It sounded good when I bought it, but it's starting to sound better in all the right places (Ab on the E string, for example). That's barely 6 months, and I haven't even been playing arco that much.

a) Barry Kolstein stands behind his instruments. I know it's a trek out to his shop, but I'm sure he'd make a soundpost adjustment and see what else he can do to alleviate the wolfs.

b) If you have his tunable tailpiece (tunable afterlengths), you can move the wolf around a little bit with trial and error. Mine is right between Ab and A, so as long as my intonation is good, it's not an issue.

c) Play the heck out of it. Play arco a ton. In 6 months it will be a different instrument. In a couple years, it will be a whole different genus and species.

 

[gnypp45]

It does not sustain as much as other notes and with muffled sound when I pluck Ab note in A string

That's textbook wolf note behavior. At the resonance peak frequency of the top plate the energy is efficiently transferred from the string, which is why the sustain is lousy.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Wolf tones can move a bit with different strings (mainly because of the different tension of the strings changing the bridge pressure to the top).

A repositioning of the soundpost (a little bit can do much) changes the vibrational patterns of the top and therefor the resonant frequencies. Not expensive and might help you more than changing strings. But better stay with the strings when the repositioning was done, which means do string experimentation before if you want to do that (but not as a main reason to get rid of the wolf). Spend (not more than) half a day with the luthier checking the results of several repositionings until you are satisfied.

 

[jaybary]

thanks for the informative responses. I checked my sound post with Bill Merchant today and my bass sounded even clearer and easier to play with big volume. I'm always amazed by his set up making superb, but Ab on A string is still not sounding well although on D string is almost gone. He told me same thing that this is very typical for carved bass - maybe I'll just play with it every single day and see what happens later within 6 months.

plus Tom Kennedy showed up with his upright to get a new sound post. It's such an unexpected meeting lol He was sweet guy too

 

[gnypp45]

If you want to attack the problem directly you can try a Wolf Terminator. It is a tunable device that flattens out the otherwise very sharp resonance peak at the Ab (or where ever the wolf note appears - the resonator is tunable between F and Bb).

It's not for everyone, since it sits on the top plate below one of the f-holes and some don't like the esthetics of it. Since it is held in place only with a small piece of museum putty it can be removed and repositioned without leaving any marks on the bass.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

If you want to attack the problem directly you can try a Wolf Terminator.
View attachment 3183423

Great product.

 

[stefaniw80401]

Hey @jaybary how is your bass in question doing now nearly the years since your original post? What have you done with soundpost, strings, wolf eliminators, tailpiece?