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dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)

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#364
Marcus Willett said:
As for guitar low end, it's different but can be just a big a problem if not moreso because few guitarists think it is. I can't tell you how many gigs I've done where the stage was rattling because the guitar (or keys) had so much low end but everyone bitches at the bass player even if his amp is off. So IME it is a granted different but just as big a problem.
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Difference is, in FOH which the sound engineer is trying to deal with, the guitar low end is mainly a problem of masking and mix slotting, whereas the bass guitar is actually in the LONG WAVEFORM category where resonant coupling and destructive interference really come into play.

Leaving aside how to deal with such guitarists, I will say that with bassists I really like running both DI and mic, often using outboard or board EQ on those two channels so that the DI channel is supplying the brunt of the LF content with stuff above that rolled off, and the mic channel is effectively highpassed so that it supplies midrange and up detail and tonality. That also has the benefit of doing away with a lot of the bass cab mic's worst bleed tendencies. Of course it's also nice to be able to run subs off AUX with only instruments that need to be there going into the AUX feeds, and with as many mics onstage as possible being highpassed.
 
#369
greenboy said:
with bassists I really like running both DI and mic, often using outboard or board EQ on those two channels so that the DI channel is supplying the brunt of the LF content with stuff above that rolled off, and the mic channel is effectively highpassed so that it supplies midrange and up detail and tonality.
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I like this approach as well, it seems to yield the best results.
 
#370
JimmyM said:
greenie, i totally agree. that's why i've been putting a little effort into learning about it. but at the end of the day, what i want out of the pa is basically the same thing i always wanted...i want the bass in the pa to sound like the bass in my amp.

now it's one thing to go up onstage with a totally uncontrollable sound and demand a mic. but soundmen should always love me no matter what i do because my sound is easily controllable...i use a high quality full range mic with fairly flat response, i don't ever play too loud, and my amp's tone is not too far off from any eq you would get with a di. and as a thread i wrote a couple weeks ago will attest, i am more than willing to listen to a soundman who thinks i'm screwing the pooch and will almost always accomodate one who needs a little something from me. part of the responsibility of demanding a mic or post-eq di is being able to work with a situation to the best interests of the band.

but since i've got the responsibility thing down, soundmen should 100% of the time let me get my sound into the pa the way i want and quit busting my balls. as it stands now, only about 90% of them do that, and at those shows, usually the only commentary i get from the soundman is "wow, great bass sound, dude!" and vice versa to them. the other 10% is why i'm ranting.
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Knowing that, and knowing your rig choices I think the guy that has trouble with what you are doing either has preconceptions or inexperience that stand in the way, or these have been especially tough venues for the system that's available. You've always seemed like you'd be pretty easy to get right.
 
#372
devoge said:
ohh....the spirit of cooperation coming out I see
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Sorry, that's life. It's not antagonistic but no one comes out to hear the soundman. He is an essential and valuable member of the crew and should be respected as such, no argument. But his function is to serve the needs of the performers, period. That's the only reason he is there.
 
#373
hbarcat said:
Still, any decent sound guy will always be able to get you "your tone" by both running a DI and micing your cab and blending the two. It's easy enough to get you "your tone" with the mic channel with the lows rolled off and then blending in the DI to get the balanced lows that the room needs.
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Naaahhh, that makes too much sense.
 
#377
devoge said:
ohh....the spirit of cooperation coming out I see
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To revisit this just a moment. There's nothing inherently uncooperative about acknowledging a hierarchy. If I'm playing for Andy and he gets sick how many people are gonna come hear just the band?

If I'm playing a club down the road with a well know local singer, people are coming out to see him and at the last minute the soundman can't make it, guess what? The same cannot be said of the singer.

Certain positions fall in different layers of the hierarchy, and that's just how it is. It doesn't mean you're not a great soundwoman or that your opinions should not be respected or anything like that but your function is to essentially serve the needs of the band. Get over it. I've been a server in the food industry and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
 
#378
Marcus Willett said:
Actually, for the most part I do. I think his approach is reasoned and sensible. We may disagree on some of the finer points but it's just that.
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Here is an excerpt from agedhorse, where he talks about asking the band for certain things for the overall good, but I guess we engineers don't deserve that. We're just there to fulfill your needs no matter what the situation w/o cooperation from the "stars?"



"I might also ask for some compromises in the monitor mixes if that's interfering with the sound the audience hears, especially in smaller rooms. If the monitors are so loud that I can't use a particular input in the main mix (and it won't sound particularly good at FOH through monitors) I will try to get everybody to back off on volumes a bit so that I can put some in the mix.

So, you can see that I am not picking on the bass player but I am asking that everybody in the band think about how the BAND sounds... the band is not a bass player, it's not a guitarist, it's not even the vocalist. It's the entire package and how the package is delivered, much as gormet food is not a bunch of ingrediants thrown together, because too much of ANY ingrediant, or an ingrediant that doesn't quite fit in detracts from the final product.

I would sure like to see the lower middle end of the music industry grow up a little bit and consider playing together as a band rather than a bunch of musicians that happen to be playing the same song at the same time. It would do a lot for the live music scene and maybe put more butts in the seats by improving the quality of the "package"... and I've said absolutely nothing about the music itself or the talent of the players.

Also, if the band makes it really hard (or impossible) for the sound guy to do a good job,and expecially if they get rude and nasty, I can guarantee you that even most of the good guys will shift to damage control mode and every member in the band will suffer... life is just too short to deal with that kind of crap at a one-off gig. Most will just "get through the night" and move on, the mix will probably be uninspired and just hanging in there along with the sound guy's attutude. Remember this when you deal with them, they can help you or hurt you. As far as crappy sound guys, not much I can say except that you will be the ones in damage control mode and it's no more fun for the band as it is when the shoe's on the other foot."
 
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