• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

dear sound guy, thanks. (di box content)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think we need to be a little bit more accurate here...

The sound guy serves the needs of the performance and the audience just like the band serves the needs of the preformance and the audience. Everybody is part of the performance, it's not just the band, just like it's not just the sound guy or the light guy or the pyro guy, or the video guy, or the promoter, etc. If you (really) think otherwise, you are missing the big picture, at least in the touring world. We are there to support you, not to take abuse or insults from you, or to be crippled by decisions that effectively set you up to fail.
that is absolutely correct. but i'll tell you, i've had soundmen try to cripple me by decisions that set me up to fail way more than vice versa. i bring a very nice mic to my local gigs, and and on fly gigs i bring a high quality speaker di out of an svt and request a mic as well. why shouldn't i be able to get what i want without argument? i don't get it. does nothing but bum me out. i've had soundmen tell me none of it matters anyway. well if it doesn't matter anyway, just give me what i want and let me play with my stuff. maybe i should bring a different bass to suit them, too?
 
To repeat, nobody is asking anybody to abandon their tone. What we are asking for is to give us the signal that gives us a reasonable attempt at getting your tone in the context of our mix out front. That eq will be different than what you are using on stage, and will sound different than a mic 3" from the speaker cone. It's better to start with an unadulterated signal than trying to undo something first.

Maybe youy guys really work with some bad sound guys, but this is not what I see in the areas I work (fortunately).

Although this may be the case with you, my experiences(although admittedly limited) is otherwise. Most soundmen don`t know my tone. In fact, many of them think the proper bass tone is the sound coming from the kick drum and with the bass DI`d to almost inaudible levels.

Like others have said, this is because many novice soundmen are subject to mainstream music and don`t understand a proper mix for a rock band with a bassist who actually plays something other than 8th note roots the entire time. Soundmen need to trust that I`m not trying to steal the show and that I actually do provide very important nuances to my bands sound. IME, it`s either ignorance or laziness from the soundman that cause most bassists concerns and/or complaints.
 
It is not the only reason he's there....there's also the audience....but nevertheless you are being antagonistic and making it sound like we should just fulfill your needs without regard to the parameters of live reinforcement with no cooperation from the band....you're not there to cooperate with us....hmmm.....Doesn't sound like a respectful thing to say in my book. After all we are having this long discussion about the sound....right?
Try rereading what I have said without reading INTO it. I never once said I was against cooperation nor have I ever dismissed the "parameters of live reinforcement". Again, I'm not putting the attitude out there.
 
I gotta speculate a little how that many are even aware WHAT their "tone" is like FOH. Did they come by this awareness from an onstage mix? If so, different issue. From board recordings? Same there. Short of standing FOH and walking some floor while simultaneously being onstage and playing, how does one have any real idea how all the subjective truths are averaging out?

And, their tone will be different everywhere in the room too. It's just one of the things we have to deal with and make the best compromise to get the best mix for the majority ofthe audience without butchering the rest of the audience. Especially with ticket prices getting up in the $30-100/seat range for the shows that I typically work. It's just not right to ignore the audience when they are payin gthat much mone for a ticket... kind of makes me sick when folks leave a show unhappy with the sound. Some of them won't be back.
 
In theory I agree. In practice what I usually see is the soundman saying the band is too loud onstage and bass and drums get blamed more than anyone else. In theory you're right, in reality uh uh.
oh brother....what about your heirarchy? Seems like the soundman would be the first to go...If you were going through a direct box, then how could you be blamed for being too loud?
 
I gotta speculate a little how that many are even aware WHAT their "tone" is like FOH. Did they come by this awareness from an onstage mix? If so, different issue. From board recordings? Same there. Short of standing FOH and walking some floor while simultaneously being onstage and playing, how does one have any real idea how all the subjective truths are averaging out?
this is where owning a wireless really is nice ;)
 
oh brother....what about your heirarchy? Seems like the soundman would be the first to go...If you were going through a direct box, then how could you be blamed for being too loud?
There is a hierarchy and if you don't understand that there's really no further we can go. Trying having a sub soundman then a sub Glen and see which gig has more cancellations.

To answer the second part, I have an amp onstage. It's an integral part of my sound; you didn't catch that?
 
reread this:

"True, the soundman serves the needs of the band. There, I said it. S/he is there for their needs, they are not there for his/hers." -Marcus

Wow...

When I go to a restaurant I am served by a server. That is that person's function. That doesn't mean I'm a better person or that I'm going to be uncooperative with them. Please stop trying to make it seems like I'm saying things I'm not. I'm not the one with the attitude methinks.
 
Got to laugh at anyone who's a player wanting to enforce the existing heirarchy. Because those who play but don't lead are pretty much at the bottom rung unless they have an inside trusted position straight into the ear of those who do. Those who control finance are more likely to consider them cogs than they are any respected sound contractor ; }

EDIT: Which is why I mentioned earlier that thinking in hierarchical terms often isn't in one's best interests in the first place.
 
Although this may be the case with you, my experiences(although admittedly limited) is otherwise. Most soundmen don`t know my tone. In fact, many of them think the proper bass tone is the sound coming from the kick drum and with the bass DI`d to almost inaudible levels.

Like others have said, this is because many novice soundmen are subject to mainstream music and don`t understand a proper mix for a rock band with a bassist who actually plays something other than 8th note roots the entire time. Soundmen need to trust that I`m not trying to steal the show and that I actually do provide very important nuances to my bands sound. IME, it`s either ignorance or laziness from the soundman that cause most bassists concerns and/or complaints.


Unfortunately, if you listen to the music that some of these junior sound guys listen to (part of the era they were brought up in), I can see that they would have a hard time extrapolating a real mix out of what they have been conditioned to hearing through their I-Pods.

You can probably tell that I'm just a little bit more old school than that. I cut my teeth mixing acoustic music 30 years ago, folk, jazz and rock mostly but a lot of international music too. I am not comfortable mixing much of the new music, where to me anyway, I have a hard time decyphering what's really going on within the din and rumble.

Funny story, every year or two I work with Kris Kristofferson, and when he first came through town he took a look at the lighting guy, my monitor guy and me and kind of rolled his eyes saying that at least we held promise. So during sound check, we get him up and running and the first time he heard his guitar he got this big grin on his face. We get things all dialed in, he's good and then go off to dinner break. Normally Kris doesn't do all that much singing during his live shows, and kind of keeps to himself. Tells a lot of stories and it's a fun show. About half way through the show he starts playing stuff that isn't on the set list. We follow along of course and the show keeps going on and on, the audience is loving it, Kris is singing most songs and there's tunes not even on the set list. He does like 35 songs and we have no idea what's next or where we are. Finally, he says over the PA that he knew the crew at the venue had promise because they were older, respectful and made really good choices during set-up and sound check. He said that was refreshing to encounter this on the road and that he hoped the audience appreciated our effort and professionalism. He also appologized for going on so long, he was having too much fun to quiut.

That's what we as sound professionals strive for. Those were some very expensive tickets IMO, $70-$100, and all 1000 audience members left that show feeling they got more than their money's worth. Now when he comes through, he knows he's going to have a good time and really loosens up, and the shows sell out too.
 
Got to laugh at anyone who's a player wanting to enforce the existing heirarchy. Because those who play but don't lead are pretty much at the bottom rung unless they have an inside trusted position straight into the ear of those who do.
i don't disagree with that. hey, we're not immune to the hierarchy. on his shows, i can't say i'm easily replaced, but i'm definitely replaceable. however, i do have a bit of a trusted position and i can speak pretty freely for a band guy.

but i do a lot of other shows where i am the hierarchy because our band is the draw and the lines are a little more blurred. and you'd think even on those shows i could get what i want all the time without having to hear a bunch of guff. i wish!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.