Details about Fender destroying G&L

[metron]

So with that in mind, these guys should be failing pretty soon…

Don't be ridiculous this is a golden anniversary demo. Literally a tribute to the past because 50 years.

Conversely all G&L marketing has relied heavily on Leo this and that, his lab is right here, you know this is the real Fender. Best basses Leo ever invented. It was played out 30 years ago.

 

[metron]

Look I love G&L but they failed miserably. Ebmm is killing it.

 

[gln1955]

There's no way Fender paid millions of dollars for some Leo name and likeness IP. It's probably more like $50k than over a million.

What they actually paid has never been publicly disclosed but if it was in the neighborhood of 50K, then that would tell you why G&L went bankrupt. This is something Fender has wanted for a long time and was ready to pay well for. For a paltry 50K, G&L would probably rather give FMIC a big F U and just say no.

 

[Big Louzer]

Don't be ridiculous this is a golden anniversary demo. Literally a tribute to the past because 50 years.

Conversely all G&L marketing has relied heavily on Leo this and that, his lab is right here, you know this is the real Fender. Best basses Leo ever invented. It was played out 30 years ago.

Not being ridiculous, EBMM has been riding the Leo Legacy just as well. Every video they put out for a new "heritage product" (which is kind of a lot…) Sterling brings up his history with Leo.

G&L failed because of mismanagement of the business and poor marketing, not because of the use of the Leo legacy. If that were the case, then why did Fender want the rights to the Leo Legacy that badly?

In my opinion, they were hitting out of the park lately, and were on bright-assed horizons with some of the concepts they were working on, like the Wide Body Funkay (L1505 style, 19mm bridge, M-Series eq) and Steve was working on a .750 Jazz Bass 5 with long-cover pickups.
This stuff would have been HUGE.

 

[Chicken Wing]

my takes...

G&L's move out mess:
It is highly likely that Fender had nothing to do with G&L's move out and cleaning up their warehouse/offices/manufacturing space. Getting involved doesn't add any value to FMIC. Fender doesn't need the headache.

G&L's failure - the blame game
G&L's market position was in no man's land. IMO, G&L was building higher quality "fender style" instruments for a fender type price (or less), with no major relevant artists representing and no face of the brand other than Leo. Doing business in California is hard. A manufacturing business in California (Orange County) with tight margins, cost increases, and California payroll is especially tough. You have to go small and super high end, or mass produce and G&L was stuck in the middle. Poor leadership. Who had the vision for the future? Beats me.

If Leo Fender had a son like Brian Ball maybe they would have had a chance.

It just doesn't make financial sense to make instruments in California unless you are very small and high price, or mass produced.

Minimum wage in Ensenada is $440.87 MX per day ($24 USD per 8 hour shift)
Minimum wage in Fullerton is $16.90 per hour ($135.20 per 8 hour shift)

 

[ClassicJazz]

I am not surprised by this one iota. Dealers who stocked G&L products were not allowed to carry Fender products. If they wanted to be a Fender retailer, they were required to sign an agreement to never stock any G&L products, neither as a retailer nor selling used trade ins.

That can't be accurate. Musician Friends, Guitar Center and other big retailers carried both Fender and G&L. I traded in a US G&L at a Guitar Center for a Fender.

My local music store who were a big G&L dealer also had Fender products for sale.

 

[Matt O]

This is something Fender has wanted for a long time and was ready to pay well for.

Very true. I remember the massive legal poo fight over it between Fender and G&L right after Leo died. This has been a long held grudge between the two. I believe it was probably what led Fender to demand exclusivity with some dealers. I honestly believe the main interest Fender had in acquiring the IP rights to Leo's likeness etc is so that nobody else could swoop in and buy it. Fender hasn't really done much with the IP since acquiring it, I think they put a page up in the history section of the website, but it's pretty low key.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I'd like to think that it implies saving what's IN THE OFFICE and not the physical room? Makes sense? ? lol

But Fender didn't buy the building. Lol

 

[PBandJazzBass]

Yeah, I don't know, man. I can believe that Fender would have trashed a lot of stuff in cleaning the place out, but I do struggle to believe that old, functional equipment, prototypes, and many of Leo Fender's personal effects were unceremoniously dumpstered.

I swear I'm not trying to stir the pot or take one side over the other, but I think it's worth pointing out it may not have been anyone from Fender who cleaned out Leo's old office. It could've been whoever owned the building.

 

[BassicJazzy]

my takes...

G&L's move out mess:
It is highly likely that Fender had nothing to do with G&L's move out and cleaning up their warehouse/offices/manufacturing space. Getting involved doesn't add any value to FMIC. Fender doesn't need the headache.

G&L's failure - the blame game
G&L's market position was in no man's land. IMO, G&L was building higher quality "fender style" instruments for a fender type price (or less), with no major relevant artists representing and no face of the brand other than Leo. Doing business in California is hard. A manufacturing business in California (Orange County) with tight margins, cost increases, and California payroll is especially tough. You have to go small and super high end, or mass produce and G&L was stuck in the middle. Poor leadership. Who had the vision for the future? Beats me.

If Leo Fender had a son like Brian Ball maybe they would have had a chance.

It just doesn't make financial sense to make instruments in California unless you are very small and high price, or mass produced.

Minimum wage in Ensenada is $440.87 MX per day ($24 USD per 8 hour shift)
Minimum wage in Fullerton is $16.90 per hour ($135.20 per 8 hour shift)

I have a friend in the business and am told that guitar and bass builders in Los Angeles get bottom of $25/hour. That's kind of the standard, for woodworkers. Electricians, machinists, and luthiers probably get more.

My sense was G&L was too small, too low volume, to make it with the level of instruments they were building, in the place they were building them (CA). And perhaps they were making too good a product at too low a price? Plus everything else people have already mentioned.

I never played one. They were all too heavy for my old back.

 

[MIJ Fender Guy]

But Fender didn't buy the building. Lol

True! I see the angle. It was just G&L and their lack of concern if anything got tossed. They would have access to the site at the time, and the power to preserve any artifacts.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

It's analogous...

A strawman argument is a logical fallacy where someone misrepresents, exaggerates, or fabricates an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack

An analogical argument is an inductive argument (a form of reasoning that uses specific observations or patterns to draw a broader, probable conclusion) that infers a conclusion based on shared similarities between two or more things.

Your mom is a strawman argument.

Slam

Nah. She died a few months ago.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I swear I'm not trying to stir the pot or take one side over the other, but I would like to point out it may not have been anyone from Fender who cleaned out Leo's old office. It could've been whoever owned the building.

I don't get it, an office is just an office. You want to see his "in files" or his desk blotter? His wastebasket or chair? Maybe a clever coffee mug? I'm sure any pictures or memorabilia went to family, or is preserved in a museum somewhere. Maybe even hanging on the wall of a Planet Hollywood?

 

[PBandJazzBass]

I don't get it, an office is just an office. You want to see his "in files" or his desk blotter? His wastebasket or chair? Maybe a clever coffee mug? I'm sure any pictures or memorabilia went to family, or is preserved in a museum somewhere. Maybe even hanging on the wall of a Planet Hollywood?

I don't know about that, just addressing people who are upset if Leo's office was indeed trashed and belongings were thrown away, from a different perspective.

If there were photos, pickups, instruments, other memorabilia, etc. sure, it would've been cool to save some of that stuff. But I'm personally neutral on the matter.

 

[sleddogn]

Pics of the office seemed to be very depressing from what i remember, old and dusty.

 

[frankie5string]

I'm confused.
Are you blaming Fender for G&L's management? G&L was shambolic long before Fender swooped in and acquired the bones of the company.

Why do people care so much about Leo Fender's desk? Everything he designed was patented. You can look it up yourself without rummaging through a smelly old desk full of Gestetnered plans and mimeograph copies.

 

[Kindness]

Not a fan or player of either brand so I'm neutral in that way
I get not using the building, but working machinery and memorabilia etc should be preserved or sold off in some way. It's so wasteful, and it's Mr Fender himself so seems disrespectful and spiteful to just throw away his memorabilia.

If someone were to preserve the machinery and memorabilia, it wouldn't have been Fender. They never owned it or had any rights to it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

sounds like Fender bought G&L after they were already largely out of business. not sure why i'd find a problem with that, since G&L was already dead.

also if Fender contracted dealers to not sell G&L, then why could a company like Sweetwater sell both?

 

[JimmyO]

My prediction, this thread changes no minds, and those who like to spell Fender with a 7 will continue to do so.

 

[Matt O]

My sense was G&L was too small, too low volume, to make it with the level of instruments they were building, in the place they were building them (CA).

Pretty much nailed it. If you need any proof of this go to YouTube and check out some of the factory tour videos. They're kind of sad in a way. Like 3 employees milling around, a near empty blank drying room, one guy sanding a neck, a wall of historical instruments covered in sawdust, Dave pulling Leo's last prototype out of a fricken gig bag and getting all weepy then banging it on the edge of a table, a full scale pencil drawing of a prototype I can only assume drawn by George Fullerton himself flapping around stuck to the side of a metal bookcase with a magnet. Sad.

The whole complex looks like it takes up several acres and there just not much going on.