DI banned by the sound guy

[InhumanResource]

Mixing boards have volume faders for a reason: any competent sound engineer is going to set the preamp input level on the channel correctly before raising the fader and sending signal to the FOH speakers.

Live sound engineers have to deal with keyboard and playback DI signals all the time, which are just as dynamic and full range as a bass pedal and in some cases much more so.

A "sound engineer" fearful that a DI signal is so potentially dangerous to their PA that they won't even set the input gain properly and listen to the signal has no idea what they're doing.

Or they just don't have time to mess with a piece of gear that's unfamiliar to them, or have had tacos break things in the past. So as a policy, and since bass works best straight into the board anyway, they just bypass all that crap and get on with the rest of the job.

 

[s0c9]

Or they just don't have time to mess with a piece of gear that's unfamiliar to them, or have had tacos break things in the past. So as a policy, and since bass works best straight into the board anyway, they just bypass all that crap and get on with the rest of the job.

In the OP's situation.. not the case.. A Helix is straight into the board.. I mic'd backline amp is not.

 

[InhumanResource]

In the OP's situation.. not the case.. A Helix is straight into the board.. I mic'd backline amp is not.

Yeah, but if you're not familiar with a helix or what it's owner is sending down the line and don't care to find out, it exactly applies to this situation.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Kyral

I think he was being ridiculous, what are your insights?

Let's just say I can resist bashing the sound guy!

I plugged my helix into the amp's return loop, so only lost my impulse response; the most important tonal shaping tool I use.

but you kept your impulse controll! Which is far more important!


Wise(b)ass

 

[Rabidhamster]

If you couldn't blow the PA with some amplification behind your signal you obviously weren't trying hard enough.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

If someone wants to ampless on stage I'm am all about making that work.
Carrying your own in ear rack, I have a split tail ready to plug in.

I do a few multi band festival type shows a year, I'm set up to roll with what ever and the have the bits and pieces handy needed to make it work.

As far a direct connection to device or processor that makes me double check things is one of the many vocal mic processors, the patch levels can be all over the place, the effects can be way overused and never turned off when the person talks and all while adding some white noise to the channel.
Rarely are they ever used somewhat correctly. All told that fad of those seems to be fading out some.

 

[s0c9]

Yeah, but if you're not familiar with a helix or what it's owner is sending down the line and don't care to find out, it exactly applies to this situation.

I agree.. but then I'd have to ask what rock the SR guy has been living under the last 6 years ...

Plus, the bassist can ALWAYS screw around with the settings (incl vol) on the mic'd amp/cab...

I'll still take a feed from a Helix over a mic'd cab for my FOH gigs.
I can control bass in mix (or mute) either but can't control/stop the amp/cab on-stage bleed/noise.

 

[InhumanResource]

I agree.. but then I'd have to ask what rock the SR guy has been living under the last 6 years ...

Plus, the bassist can ALWAYS screw around with the settings (incl vol) on the mic'd amp/cab...

I'll still take a feed from a Helix over a mic'd cab for my FOH gigs.
I can control bass in mix (or mute) either but can't control/stop the amp/cab on-stage bleed/noise.

I agree a box is way better than mic'd but I'm not going to complain when a sound guy asks to just get a dry signal. After all, that's why I bought a really nice sounding bass

 

[InhumanResource]

If someone wants to ampless on stage I'm am all about making that work.
Carrying your own in ear rack, I have a split tail ready to plug in.

I do a few multi band festival type shows a year, I'm set up to roll with what ever and the have the bits and pieces handy needed to make it work.

As far a direct connection to device or processor that makes me double check things is one of the many vocal mic processors, the patch levels can be all over the place, the effects can be way overused and never turned off when the person talks and all while adding some white noise to the channel.
Rarely are they ever used somewhat correctly. All told that fad of those seems to be fading out some.

Exactly. Most users here wouldn't let someone sit in with their 1-3K bass. I'm definitely not complaining about someone being conservative with their 20k sound system, especially not when the stakes are my precious "sound."

Be easy to work with and you'll get the calls, sometimes even if you aren't all that good.

 

[jbhaugh]

Setting up for a gig the other night the sound guy refused to take a DI off my Helix and insisted i use their backline amp (a keyboard amp) that he miced up. He said the PA was worth £20k so couldn't risk the bass player blowing it.

I think he was being ridiculous, what are your insights?

He probably has the channel set up for miking that amp for bass and he doesn't care to change anything. Did you sound like crap through FOH?

 

[Geri O]

Yeah, but if you're not familiar with a helix or what it's owner is sending down the line and don't care to find out, it exactly applies to this situation.

Oh, come on, what's to know, if you are a varsity sound guy and halfway know what you're doing?

(Speaking as a 25-year pro audio veteran that's very nearly seen it all. But decided I like playing bass better than mixing…)

(Of course, it's the mods' call, but I can't believe this thread has made seven pages….)

 

[FRoss6788]

I agree a box is way better than mic'd but I'm not going to complain when a sound guy asks to just get a dry signal. After all, that's why I bought a really nice sounding bass

What if the sound guy has no idea what he's doing(this guy seems like he doesn't) and your really nice bass sounds like ass?

We play at a venue where the guy has no idea how to use the board and if I don't send an EQ'd signal it ends up being nasty boxy-ass bass tone.

 

[InhumanResource]

What if the sound guy has no idea what he's doing(this guy seems like he doesn't) and your really nice bass sounds like ass?

We play at a venue where the guy has no idea how to use the board and if I don't send an EQ'd signal it ends up being nasty boxy-ass bass tone.

The fact that he immediately went for simplifying things instead of letting any yahoo plug their magic box into his system tells me he probably knows his stuff.

My really nice bass sounds really nice on its own and you'd have to go out of your way to screw it up, but generally we don't play places again if the sound is poorly done. If it's just me that sounds bad, chances are I won't know because I'm not out front and well…I'd bet 90% of whoever is out in the audience won't particularly care either.

 

[InhumanResource]

Oh, come on, what's to know, if you are a varsity sound guy and halfway know what you're doing?

(Speaking as a 25-year pro audio veteran that's very nearly seen it all. But decided I like playing bass better than mixing…)

(Of course, it's the mods' call, but I can't believe this thread has made seven pages….)

Like another poster said, patch volumes and who knows what settings can vary widely and be problematic so it's a safer bet to just omit them. I get the sense that complaining about this is a bassist on the same spectrum as guitar players who need to stop the whole band for guitar changes between "strat songs" and "Les Paul" songs.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Like another poster said, patch volumes and who knows what settings can vary widely and be problematic so it's a safer bet to just omit them. I get the sense that complaining about this is a bassist on the same spectrum as guitar players who need to stop the whole band for guitar changes between "strat songs" and "Les Paul" songs.

...and they switch every other song with a complete re tune every time and all the while no one is talking to audience.

 

[Geri O]

Like another poster said, patch volumes and who knows what settings can vary widely and be problematic so it's a safer bet to just omit them. I get the sense that complaining about this is a bassist on the same spectrum as guitar players who need to stop the whole band for guitar changes between "strat songs" and "Les Paul" songs.

Regardless, I still disagree with the premise of an engineer dictating to the players what they can play through.

If that event is a cattle call festival or battle of the bands thing, the organizers need to dictate what the terms are for the bands in order to keep things on a schedule (I hated those, but part if the job).
I've never dictated to a player what to play through or not. No matter how much it sucked (and it did at times, no doubt!).

And I'd fire a sound guy on our crew for such habits.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

The fact that he immediately went for simplifying things instead of letting any yahoo plug their magic box into his system tells me he probably knows his stuff.

That may or may not be the case - we lack insufficient data. I've had experienced engineers be flexible and inflexible and inexperienced ones refuse to step outside their comfort zone.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Like another poster said, patch volumes and who knows what settings can vary widely and be problematic so it's a safer bet to just omit them.

I mentioned patch volumes but the requirement is on me to do my homework and match them and if necessary work with the sound engineer to limit them. However, if I was being told to DI direct from the bass and not have synth sounds I would first try to be diplomatic and work with the sound engineer, maybe even try a blend, but there might be a point where I would say words and/or take my ball away .

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I'd bet 90% of whoever is out in the audience won't particularly care either.

I wouldn't count on that. Granted I've heard some bass in big venues that was so indistinct that tone wasn't the right word for it I expect if you had changed Lemmy's set up for a Marcus Miller sound, most of the audience would notice. And there are some bands that seem to attract a lot of musos that would notice if the Bb had been added correctly in the bass to the add 11 chord in bar 38 and would notice if the bass tone was wrong. Especially if it was supposed to be synth bass or envelope filter or whatever.

 

[gln1955]

Like another poster said, patch volumes and who knows what settings can vary widely and be problematic so it's a safer bet to just omit them. I get the sense that complaining about this is a bassist on the same spectrum as guitar players who need to stop the whole band for guitar changes between "strat songs" and "Les Paul" songs.

Is it really so much to ask the SE to do his job? I played in a band where the guitarist used a modeler and never ever had a SE care one bit about tapping into it. It's not at all an unusual piece of equipment.

I really don't see why you are defending a dinosaur SE.