Because the SE is correct. It is his job is to make sure the show sounds good, not to make sure some bass player has "their sound", so from my perspective he did that.
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DI banned by the sound guy
- Thread starter kyral210
- Start date
Because the SE is correct. It is his job is to make sure the show sounds good, not to make sure some bass player has "their sound", so from my perspective he did that.
Being one of those "dinosaur SE"s, you will do well to learn the difference between a dinosaur SE (like me and happy I made it there) and a junior varsity or otherwise incompetent mixer.
(And oh, yeah, read the sticky about bashing sound guys at the to of this page while yer at it….)
Depends on the venue and the band relationship to the sound guy.
One of the venues we play, if we're using the house system, we're paying the sound guy. At that point, he works for me and better damn well take my signal from where he's directed.
We disagree on this one (I usually agree with your POV), I think the SE could have worked with the player to make the Helix work.
I once had to put my foot down with a trumpeter who had an intermittent phantom power connection to his clip-on mic. Sounded like a gunfight, with most of the bullets hitting my expensive powered speakers.
I can't imagine a line out from a Helix being anywhere near that bad - unless the power supply wiring was fraying.
I can't imagine a line out from a Helix being anywhere near that bad - unless the power supply wiring was fraying.
I understand he probably could have, but chose not to. That's my point. The responses about how this is somehow a misstep or speaks to his competency level just seem like entitlement. Nobody owes this to us.
I say that as I spent my afternoon shopping for a fancy DI with super exciting knobs. If/when the SE tells me he wants a dry signal, that baby goes right back into the gig bag for a plain old passive box and the show goes on.
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Actually, this is the biggest sticking point for me....Insisting on a keyboard amp for the bass does seem a little odd. But I have noticed that sound guys can be an eccentric bunch - at least the ones my bands can afford.
Twenty grand (pounds sterling) on a sound system, but has to run bass through a keyboard amp...
Just really sounds janky to me...
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Sorry... bass GUITAR...
Hey, I'd give that a go!….
Though it's not a concern with the Helix, I can see wanting to mitigate the very remote possibility that someone inadvertently sends phantom power by splitting a signal going to an in-ear mixer. I would ask if his concern could be mitigated by throwing an isolation box inline. If he was still unhappy about it, I would politely comply and I would then add that place to the list of venues I will never play again. Wouldn't be the first time
Of course, this is a most legitimate concern, but I thought the XLR output of the Helix, as well as the Kempers and the Quad Cortex (which I recently checked) were isolated from inadvertent phantom power damage.Though it's not a concern with the Helix, I can see wanting to mitigate the very remote possibility that someone inadvertently sends phantom power by splitting a signal going to an in-ear mixer. I would ask if his concern could be mitigated by throwing an isolation box inline. If he was still unhappy about it, I would politely comply and I would then add that place to the list of venues I will never play again. Wouldn't be the first time
But indeed, a tech turning on phantom power during the show, if that's the concern here, wouldn't and shouldn't last long in the mixing business.
We owe it to the audience, fellow band members, etc., to fight for the correct signal chain that allows us to produce the intended sound such that the pieces we play sound as intended (as far as is possible) and we can play at our best. So if someone asked me to do this I would try to reason with the sound engineer as I don't think the proposed option is the best way to serve the music. Sometimes, you do have to be pragmatic but using a keyboard amp is a very suboptimal way to do it unless it has really good bass extension and is of high quality and the sound produced by it, as demonstrated in a sound check, is appropriate. I certainly don't think suggestions such as taking a DI before pedals is appropriate if the pedals are a part of your sound. That's like banning the trumpet player from using a mute or saying that falsetto is not allowed in a rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody.
Guys like that make life a lot harder for the rest of us ! I've worked both ends of the snake….
the most likely, non-defective instrument to bonk a pa is synthesizers. I'd mix wild-eyed noise bands sometimes that sent some massive low end spikes. You HAVE to know how to amplify signals like that safely. Even if it means limiting and eqing it to death.
tge smartest of these acts rolled in with like 5 Roland kc500 keyboard amps, which I mic'ed. If an amp can play it, a pa should have no problem. If it is too low and loud to replicate I can configure an input to reinforce what is can, safely.
the most likely, non-defective instrument to bonk a pa is synthesizers. I'd mix wild-eyed noise bands sometimes that sent some massive low end spikes. You HAVE to know how to amplify signals like that safely. Even if it means limiting and eqing it to death.
tge smartest of these acts rolled in with like 5 Roland kc500 keyboard amps, which I mic'ed. If an amp can play it, a pa should have no problem. If it is too low and loud to replicate I can configure an input to reinforce what is can, safely.
Those examples are nothing like it, a mute nor falsetto are not ever going to cause a system to clip but your pedal might.
The point is that they are integral to the sound. But a badly employed trumpet can indeed result in clipping and I've heard singers cause it too many times. Ideally, the player (bass, trumpet, singer, or whatever) should use appropriate techniques or test their equipment but it's also incumbent for the owner of the PA to protect their asset without throwing the baby out with the bath water and fundamentally changing a band's sound. It's pretty ludicrous to me to expect a band to have to compromise to that extent. If that's required, why bother with live performances?
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MDBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 7, 2012
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If a FOH person is breaking their stuff with tacos, they've clearly out of their depth
The OP's "sound engineer" didn't run the bass straight to the board either: they insisted on running the bass through a mic'ed up keyboard amp, because it was "safer" for the PA than a DI.
That's not the thought process of an actual sound engineer.
MDBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 7, 2012
- 8,590
- 14,892
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
Patch volumes on keyboards and playback rigs vary wildly as well: "omit them" is not a valid option for a live sound engineer.
This comically incompetent stranger described in the OP is not a sound engineer.
They don't deserve another second of your valuable time defending their incompetence to other strangers
As a friendly style sound guy I say to the key player in sound/line check "Play me yer loudest/bassiest patch". The point of this is to get a feel for where to go in terms of gain, eq, compression (in that order too). I didn't really have people B.S. me there, and never had anyone f-up the PA.
Some band engineers needed sorted out, but that's the game...
Some band engineers needed sorted out, but that's the game...
