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Did I handle this the wrong way? LONG RANT

#61
The best way a bricks and mortar music store can compete is to offer what online shopping can't: human contact. Knowledge, experience, courtesy, and a bit of old fashioned salesmanship. Every gigging bassist knows the value of a good relationship with the local music store. Even being able to play the bass before you buy it, or just drive back to the store to return it, is a massive tick in favour of 'real' stores.

To the OP, maybe next time just ask if they can throw in a free strap, lead, strings, or even a gig bag. Even before internet shopping got big, I remember the addition of deal-sweeteners like that being pretty normal.

But if they refuse to offer you a $10 Ernie Ball strap in exchange for the purchase of an instrument, then you know something's up...
 
#62
I need to give a BIG +1 to what Gaius said. You talked about how you were able to play a bunch of different instruments to find the one that you liked. And then you could walk out with right at that moment. This is what the brick and mortar store offers and what you are paying the extra (tax) for. And it is well worth it.

And, for those who do this (not saying you did), IMO it is LAME to try out the gear at the store and then go buy it on-line no matter what. If you walk in and store prices are too high, then walk out and order on-line WITHOUT playing six different basses first.
 
#63
Mugre said:
. If I feel like I don't have enough money (to buy what I want) it's my job to figure out how to make more and not my job to figure out how to get other people to accept less.
Mugre
Click to expand...

Quoted to ensure it wasn't lost. I agree with this wholeheartedly.

And wasting other peoples time and money by going to a store to try something out before buying online is so self entitled it crosses into shameful.
 
#64
I thought it was kind of naive, myself. The whole American economy is based on making more AND getting people to accept less. If I have $1000 to buy a bass but I can talk someone into taking $800 for it, how is that bad? You can believe that brick store doesn't care for it suppliers profit margins.
 
#65
Another point I forgot to mention, which I don't think has been raised here: you were hoping to haggle because it was cheaper online. In (limited) experience, you're on better footing if you know you can get the bass cheaper in another shop.

Personal example: my SG bass. I tried one in a town a way out with a huge guitar shop but put off buying it. Later found one in the centre of town, quite a bit more expensive. I took the line of "Ok, you want £250 for this, but I know I can get one in [other town] for £200. But it might cost me £10-15 to get the train out there, so would you settle for £215?"

Maybe I just caught him in a good mood but he took my price without even trying to haggle back. I think they'll compete with other bricks and mortar shops, but not online stores.
 
#66
AuntieBeeb said:
Another point I forgot to mention, which I don't think has been raised here: you were hoping to haggle because it was cheaper online. In (limited) experience, you're on better footing if you know you can get the bass cheaper in another shop.

Personal example: my SG bass. I tried one in a town a way out with a huge guitar shop but put off buying it. Later found one in the centre of town, quite a bit more expensive. I took the line of "Ok, you want £250 for this, but I know I can get one in [other town] for £200. But it might cost me £10-15 to get the train out there, so would you settle for £215?"

Maybe I just caught him in a good mood but he took my price without even trying to haggle back. I think they'll compete with other bricks and mortar shops, but not online stores.
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But they have to compete with online stores or they're doomed. A cheaper price is a cheaper price, esp if its a large margin like you're describing. If you said "I can get it online for $200 will you take $215, and he blew you off just because he doesn't compete with online stores, he's not going to last long. IMO of course
 
#67
To all those that have commented, 'thank you' for your comments. In retrospect, I know I handled it the wrong way and there were a couple points in the discussion where I should have taken the high road and either walked or taken a different approach. I was a d-bag and I think I was just jabbing that guy about the crappy service and cold shoulder I got. That won't happen again.

This happened a couple Saturdays ago. And so as not to cloud the issue I did not tell you the rest of the story:

This past weekend I went to another brick and mortar store about 100 miles away. The store is about the same size as the one I was in previously and carries (in general terms) the same brands. Found their bass room, was there only about two minutes when I was greeted by a salesperson. He asked me a bunch of questions, asked me if I wanted to play something. I played some different basses, picked out the same bass I had picked out at the previous store. Without prompting the salesperson says "do you want me to run the price and see if we can make this work for you?". I say "sure". He comes back and says "well, we can only knock about $20 off the price but we'll give you a card for 10% off strings whenever you come into the store and we'll do free check-ups and set-ups for as long as you own it". Incidentally, their price tag was the same as the previous place.

And that is exactly how it happened. That quick, that easy. Again, I know now that I was a jerk in the other store and did not choose my words wisely. It's amazing how different these two experiences were.
 
#68
gordon5377 said:
...Without prompting the salesperson says "do you want me to run the price and see if we can make this work for you?". I say "sure". He comes back and says "well, we can only knock about $20 off the price but we'll give you a card for 10% off strings whenever you come into the store and we'll do free check-ups and set-ups for as long as you own it". Incidentally, their price tag was the same as the previous place.

And that is exactly how it happened. That quick, that easy. Again, I know now that I was a jerk in the other store and did not choose my words wisely. It's amazing how different these two experiences were.
Click to expand...

Perfect ending to the story:
- Sensible customer is sensitive to the store's needs, and avoids pushing their buttons.
- Sensible salesman offers above-average service without giving away the store.
- Satisfied customer gets to choose the best bass instead of guessing, and will probably go out of their way to shop there in the future.

This is how brick and mortar shopping is supposed to work!
 
#69
gordon5377 said:
To all those that have commented, 'thank you' for your comments. In retrospect, I know I handled it the wrong way and there were a couple points in the discussion where I should have taken the high road and either walked or taken a different approach. I was a d-bag and I think I was just jabbing that guy about the crappy service and cold shoulder I got. That won't happen again.

This happened a couple Saturdays ago. And so as not to cloud the issue I did not tell you the rest of the story:

This past weekend I went to another brick and mortar store about 100 miles away. The store is about the same size as the one I was in previously and carries (in general terms) the same brands. Found their bass room, was there only about two minutes when I was greeted by a salesperson. He asked me a bunch of questions, asked me if I wanted to play something. I played some different basses, picked out the same bass I had picked out at the previous store. Without prompting the salesperson says "do you want me to run the price and see if we can make this work for you?". I say "sure". He comes back and says "well, we can only knock about $20 off the price but we'll give you a card for 10% off strings whenever you come into the store and we'll do free check-ups and set-ups for as long as you own it". Incidentally, their price tag was the same as the previous place.

And that is exactly how it happened. That quick, that easy. Again, I know now that I was a jerk in the other store and did not choose my words wisely. It's amazing how different these two experiences were.
Click to expand...

Wow -- night and day. I'd shop there!

I commend you for your self-awareness—it can be a scarce commodity these days.

So did you buy? What'd you score? Pics?
 
#71
bolophonic said:
OP, it sounds like you know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Going into a music store and saying (in effect) "where's my automatic discount?" and then telling the guy that you can get the bass cheaper online makes you sound like an ass and I don't blame the guy at all for throwing you out. Keep treating your local stores like garbage and pretty soon you will be ordering everything off of MF when your local stores give up because every twerp in town uses them to test drive instruments. Most of them probably don't try to goad the owner into an argument, though.
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Actually, music stores treating their customers like garbage is what puts them out of business. I think we are talking about two different kinds of stores, GC is one thing, these off brand private owned stores is quite another. They are the ones who always ask for list price or more, are rude and give the customer a bad experience during the buying part of it, not to mention if you ever have to take something back for repairs or warranty.

In my city I just witnessed a major brand gone because the owner couldn't keep enough of the product on the floor and wasn't selling enough either, so what am I supposed to do when I want that brand ? I have to get it some where else.
 
#72
electracoyote said:
Okay, so OP is a tough customer. People who work in retail are supposed to be good at working with tough customers. Customers can't all be creampuffs who will stand there all day waiting for a clerk to pull a guitar off the rack, and they can't all be people who will pay any price for an item without question.

What's interesting about this story is, whenever there is a MF/GC thread, there are always the voices becrying how the big box store is ruining brick and mortar, the cries of "shop local, think of poor mom and pop, save the local economy." Well, too bad "local economy," if I have to deal with jackass music store clerks, I'm sitting at home in my underwear with a beer and clicking the send button for my internet order.

And say what you want about Guitar Centers, but I can at least pull a guitar down (unless it's a multi-thousand dollar specimen) and try it without a permit. Help is usually a lot easier to find as well.

I do find that the attitudes are far worse in the small brick and mortar local shops.
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My point exactly, but even with GC, they never have what you want when you want it. For instance if you want Markbass stuff the only place to get it is online at the Markbass store or through GC. So GC should have all of their choices fully stocked but they don't.

Some of you are so against ordering online but guess what, anything I ever got from GC, they had to order because they didn't have it either.
 
#73
Ben Wilkie said:
The best way a bricks and mortar music store can compete is to offer what online shopping can't: human contact. Knowledge, experience, courtesy, and a bit of old fashioned salesmanship. Every gigging bassist knows the value of a good relationship with the local music store. Even being able to play the bass before you buy it, or just drive back to the store to return it, is a massive tick in favour of 'real' stores.

To the OP, maybe next time just ask if they can throw in a free strap, lead, strings, or even a gig bag. Even before internet shopping got big, I remember the addition of deal-sweeteners like that being pretty normal.

But if they refuse to offer you a $10 Ernie Ball strap in exchange for the purchase of an instrument, then you know something's up...
Click to expand...

I agree totally and have an example of excellant good will on the part of a small music store. We used to live less than 2 miles from them, then they moved across town. Well as chance would have it in a few years so did we. My brother and I went in and he found a Mesa Boogie guitar amp he wanted but he wanted it in the upgraded color and material and more wattage.

The owner told us that in 2 weeks she was flying out west to meet with her Mesa dealer and would see what she could do. 4 weeks later she calls us, we go in and setting there is my brothers new amp, color and material he wanted and wattage for the price of the one on the floor that was black and had less power. Mesa doesn't deal on price as we all know its list price for everyone, so I don't know what she did but that is what we call customer service at its best.

We did have a good relationship with that store for years prior to this experience.
 
#74
notverygood said:
But they have to compete with online stores or they're doomed. A cheaper price is a cheaper price, esp if its a large margin like you're describing. If you said "I can get it online for $200 will you take $215, and he blew you off just because he doesn't compete with online stores, he's not going to last long. IMO of course
Click to expand...

Ok, granted, the online stores can undercut them easily. But if they could match the online price, don't you think they would? It's reasonable to assume that the owner of that shop has a far tighter profit margin than Musician's Friend, or else he'd be able to charge less for his stock. As a lot of people have said so far in this thread, the difference is being able to go into the shop, play the bass, try a few others, get advice, get immediate help if you find a fault and have to take it back or need it setting up. Whether that's worth the extra money to keep the high street shp in business, well that's up to you.

(For what it's worth, I could have got that bass cheaper online!)
 
#76
the tone was set when the poster ignored signs written in plain english. if the girl was there first, and had questions, as a customer she is entitled to as much of the salesman's time as is reasonable. the op was looking for a problem, and got one. i side with the proprietor of the store on this.
 
#77
Man! Bolophonic, Snarf, I would not shop at your stores. You're attitudes are *terrible*. It's called "SALES" - as in, you have to sell stuff. Not cuss people out because they don't like the deal you're putting out. The OP *obviously* was not considering or factoring in the tangible benefits of shopping in local store vs. online. This is where *sales skills* kick in. Rather than getting angry and yelling at him to GTFO of your store, you calmly explain - teach the customer - what they are getting for their slightly higher cost. The attitude you express is like the customer owes you something, which is simply not the case. If the customer has a question, even if it annoys you and you think the answer is obvious, it is still *your job* as a salesman to answer that question gracefully. The suggest you'd throw in a free set-up, or a pack of strings at 1/2 price (on the strings) to sweeten the deal, but you can't budge on the price of the bass. Work it, you know, *sell*. I was told by a million dollar real estate agent that sales begins when the customer says, "no." That's not when you yell STFU and kick them out of your store! That's just chasing away business. Destined to fail if that's your strategy.
 
#78
HolmeBass said:
Man! Bolophonic, Snarf, I would not shop at your stores. You're attitudes are *terrible*. It's called "SALES" - as in, you have to sell stuff. Not cuss people out because they don't like the deal you're putting out. The OP *obviously* was not considering or factoring in the tangible benefits of shopping in local store vs. online. This is where *sales skills* kick in. Rather than getting angry and yelling at him to GTFO of your store, you calmly explain - teach the customer - what they are getting for their slightly higher cost. The attitude you express is like the customer owes you something, which is simply not the case. If the customer has a question, even if it annoys you and you think the answer is obvious, it is still *your job* as a salesman to answer that question gracefully. The suggest you'd throw in a free set-up, or a pack of strings at 1/2 price (on the strings) to sweeten the deal, but you can't budge on the price of the bass. Work it, you know, *sell*. I was told by a million dollar real estate agent that sales begins when the customer says, "no." That's not when you yell STFU and kick them out of your store! That's just chasing away business. Destined to fail if that's your strategy.
Click to expand...

+1

GOOD sales staff would have used language like, "Sorry for the wait, I'll try to be around to help you put that bass back and pull down another one for you."

GOOD sales staff would have used language like, "Sorry bro, I know you're just trying to get the best price, but we mark them as low as we can and stick to what's on the tag (repeated as often as necessary, in the same friendly tone). Maybe I can sweeten the deal with a free cable or half off a pack of strings?"

GOOD sales staff would have emphasized that they are there to help you, within reason, should anything go wrong, and just up the road, instead of a faceless entity on the internet hundreds of miles away, and then made a good faith sign to back it up.

GOOD sales staff NEVER, EVER YELLS AT CUSTOMERS or even gets a nasty tone unless there is some EXTREME reason, which there is not in OP's case.

If you DON'T get this stuff from your local brick and mortar, and if you get the opposite, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SHOP THERE? (short of being a masochist?)
 
#79
HolmeBass said:
Man! Bolophonic, Snarf, I would not shop at your stores. You're attitudes are *terrible*. It's called "SALES" - as in, you have to sell stuff. Not cuss people out because they don't like the deal you're putting out. The OP *obviously* was not considering or factoring in the tangible benefits of shopping in local store vs. online. This is where *sales skills* kick in. Rather than getting angry and yelling at him to GTFO of your store, you calmly explain - teach the customer - what they are getting for their slightly higher cost. The attitude you express is like the customer owes you something, which is simply not the case. If the customer has a question, even if it annoys you and you think the answer is obvious, it is still *your job* as a salesman to answer that question gracefully. The suggest you'd throw in a free set-up, or a pack of strings at 1/2 price (on the strings) to sweeten the deal, but you can't budge on the price of the bass. Work it, you know, *sell*. I was told by a million dollar real estate agent that sales begins when the customer says, "no." That's not when you yell STFU and kick them out of your store! That's just chasing away business. Destined to fail if that's your strategy.
Click to expand...

Let's be clear here, the OP went in with an agenda of noodling around and antagonizing the owner with a conversation about the great deal he could get by ordering it elsewhere. The picture that I am seeing is a man trying to make ends meet by offering a valuable resource to the musical community who is then asked to justify himself to a rude, manipulative kid who obviously thinks the store is a playroom and who doesn't even have the decency to form a respectful relationship before demanding that the owner eat the cost of the tax in order to make the sale.

Multiply that day after day over the last few years and I can see why the owner would toss a deadbeat like that out of his store. I'd like to know how old the OP is, and how much real life experience he has with anything besides spending his allowance. Roto Rick, too.
 
#80
electracoyote said:
+1

GOOD sales staff would have used language like, "Sorry for the wait, I'll try to be around to help you put that bass back and pull down another one for you."

GOOD sales staff would have used language like, "Sorry bro, I know you're just trying to get the best price, but we mark them as low as we can and stick to what's on the tag (repeated as often as necessary, in the same friendly tone). Maybe I can sweeten the deal with a free cable or half off a pack of strings?"

GOOD sales staff would have emphasized that they are there to help you, within reason, should anything go wrong, and just up the road, instead of a faceless entity on the internet hundreds of miles away, and then made a good faith sign to back it up.

GOOD sales staff NEVER, EVER YELLS AT CUSTOMERS or even gets a nasty tone unless there is some EXTREME reason, which there is not in OP's case.

If you DON'T get this stuff from your local brick and mortar, and if you get the opposite, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SHOP THERE? (short of being a masochist?)
Click to expand...

I get pretty good service wherever I go. You know why? I treat people with respect from the get-go. I leverage good deals, haggle -- sometimes I get a break, sometimes I pay full price. If I walked around treating everyone's shop like a play area to test out my online purchases and made that clear to the owner, I would expect the relationship to sour quickly.
 

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