Did I handle this the wrong way? LONG RANT

[gordon5377]

So last weekend I go into one of our local stores (we actually have three and this is the largest with the best selection) to see what’s out there. I recently got a bonus at work and was going to give myself a little present for the work and hours I had put it in.
The guitars and basses are located in the upstairs of the store, everything else is downstairs. I went upstairs and started looking over the racks to see what they had. After about 15 minutes of browsing I finally settled on a couple basses I wanted to play. Keep in mind that no one from the store has yet to check on me or acknowledge that they are there. I reached to pull one off the hanger when I noticed signs posted all over the walls: “Do not remove guitars from hangers…please ask for assistance. Any damage will be your responsibility”. So I walk downstairs and finally find someone who is a “guitar-guy” (he is in the acoustic section talking to an attractive young female looking for a guitar). He tells me he will be with me “in a minute”. I go back upstairs and wait. Ten minutes later, he has not come up. Being the rational person I am I realize that her 36Cs are more important than me and I decide I’ve been around guitars enough in my career that I can handle it. So I reach and pull a bass off the wall. I then head to the amp room ready to play this bass. I then spend about three minutes searching for a guitar cable. After solving that problem I plug in and start playing at a reasonable volume but certainly not ‘booming’. All of a sudden I can hear someone running up the stairs…it’s ‘guitar-guy’. He swings in the amp room door and says, “oh, did someone else help you?”
“No”, I say, “I just figured you were busy and I figured I could handle it and I wanted to play this bass”.
“OH!”, he says. “Well you know we do have a policy that if you damage the guitar you are responsible for the cost of repairs or we could make you buy it?”
I stop playing. “Yes, I am well aware of that. The signs you had posted made that perfectly clear.” I start playing again, this time with a little more attack.
“Well, let me know when you are finished so I can put all this away”, guitar-guys says.
“I will”, I reply, and guitar-guy exits and heads back downstairs.
After about twenty minutes of playing various basses I settle on the one that I want. I head downstairs and can’t find ‘guitar-guy’. Another guy from behind the counter asks if he can help me. I tell him ‘yes’.
Me: “How much do you want for that (black bass) you have upstairs?”
Him: “You mean the (insert bass name here)?”
Me: “Yeah”
Him: “Well what did the tag say?”
Me: “Well the tag says ($$$), but I want to know what you’ll take for it?”
Him: “I’m not sure I know what you mean. There’s a tag on it, that’s what we want for it.”
Me: “Well, it’s been my experience that those are usually a list or starting price and that if a guy is here with cash in-hand willing to take it from stock that you can make a better deal.”
Him: “Well, first, I’m not sure who else does business like that but we don’t. And second, that’s our best price. After all, we have to compete with Musician’s Friend.”
Me: “OK. Well, the ($$$) is the same price as Musician’s Friend so if you want to compete with them then your price should be lower or there should be an advantage to buying it here.”
Him: (surprised and a little harsh) “Like what?”
Me: “Well, I don’t have to pay sales tax with them and they ship for free. If I buy it here I have to pay tax.”
Him: (starting to get angry) “Well I’m sorry but I have to collect tax there’s nothing I can do about that.”
Me: “I’m sorry, you misunderstood me. It’s not about the tax it’s about giving me an incentive to buy from you.”
Him: (really getting angry) “And what kind of incentive do you want? You know, I just can’t go around giving (explanative) away, that’s not good business and it’s not the way I do business.”
Me: “All I’m saying is that if you are trying to compete with Musician’s Friend and all you are willing to do is match their pricing then there is no incentive for me to buy from you. I mean, I could be sitting at home right now in my underwear drinking a beer and pushing the send button on my order. But instead, I came down here to my local store, trying to support the community, and what happens? I wait upstairs for over 10 minutes before anyone even knows I am here. Another 15 minutes before they check back with me. I have a guitar in my hand ready to buy, I can’t find the guy I was talking to, and then I step up to the counter and the best you can do is say basically “its’ the same price on Musician’s Friend? What do you want me to do?”
Him: “What do I want you to do?”
Me: “Yeah”.
Him: (REALLY PISSED) “I want you to get the (explanative) out of my store!” (He then started screaming a bunch of other stuff that really does not add to the story).

So, I left. My question: Did I handle this the wrong way? Was I expecting too much? Was I the jerk?

 

[the Arsonaut]

yeah, in the end, yes.

Let's take the "(getting angry)" parts out, since I'm certain you, as a customer were turning the screw a little bit.

I'm not going to stick up for the rights of each and every music store, or business owner for that matter...but the incessant "well, I can get it online" line is hackwork, when it comes to negotiation.
Two days ago, I told a kid to tell it walking at a store, and a) I go to that store begrudgingly once/twice a year b) I certainly am not an employee. But he was laying into that line like it was a sacrament.
You want to get it from musician's friend, get it there.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Oh you're definitely a jerk, coming in to his store and being able to see the actual instrument you buy should be somewhat of an incentive, how about supporting the local economy? How much was the bass what kind of taxes are we talking about? You need to keep in mind his cost is probably higher than MF as well, unless he is part of a major buying group. Even though the customer service sucked, it still costs him money to have somebody talk to you.

He handled it terribly, especially for a business owner though. One should never talk to a customer like that, even if they are a lookey-loo... of which the instrument dealers have to deal with probably more than any other store. I wouldn't shop there again.

 

[Gaius46]

yeah, in the end, yes.

Let's take the "(getting angry)" parts out, since I'm certain you, as a customer were turning the screw a little bit.

I'm not going to stick up for the rights of each and every music store, or business owner for that matter...but the incessant "well, I can get it online" line is hackwork, when it comes to negotiation.
Two days ago, I told a kid to tell it walking at a store, and a) I go to that store begrudgingly once/twice a year b) I certainly am not an employee. But he was laying into that line like it was a sacrament.
You want to get it from musician's friend, get it there.

Professionalism in the sales world means NEVER getting angry at the customer no matter how big a jerk they're being and as written the OP wasn't even being too difficult.

To the OP for a brick and mortar business to match prices with an online seller is in my experience a pretty good. What you get out of the deal is being able to play a bunch of basses and pick the one you want, have it the same day and have someone to bring it back to in case something goes wrong. Those are all significant benefits.

 

[Tampabass]

sounds like a store that won't be around much longer -- and the saddest/most pitiful part is that they'll pretend like they have no idea why they didn't succeed.

 

[the Arsonaut]

and being a good driver means never flipping another driver off, never speeding, etc...Yes show me someone with a spotless driving record, and I'll show you a pedestrian...

I'm not going to read too much into the OP's dialogue, since...in my example, that same kid...told a very different version of his story, 20 minutes later...outside my club. You can imagine how his story changed again, when he noticed me looming in the background...

 

[Sub300Hertz]

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right" ? I can understand the guy getting a bit pissed after listening to the Musician's Friend bit for the Nth time, but as a business owner (or employee) that's no way to treat a customer.
Sorry but if you wanna sell to people but can't deal with them better find another line of work.

 

[Lazarus.Bird]

No. You had already received poor service. Then you attempted to haggle on a type of item that is commonly haggled. The employee could have calmly and politely told you that for that particular bass, they are currently not willing to move on the price. He could have also at least pretended to "check with the manager" and at least make it seem like he's trying to help you out. I don't expect a store to give me the exact deal I want, but I expect a lot better service than what you received.

 

[scottbass]

...for a brick and mortar business to match prices with an online seller is in my experience a pretty good. What you get out of the deal is being able to play a bunch of basses and pick the one you want, have it the same day and have someone to bring it back to in case something goes wrong. Those are all significant benefits.

This. I expect to pay slightly MORE in a brick & mortar store for the significant benefits Gaius46 listed. You were expecting too much. Your bad. Sales guy was not professional for losing his cool. His bad. This is a lose-lose story IMHO.

 

[Luv2Pla4U]

Did I handle this the wrong way? Was I expecting too much? Was I the jerk?

First question - yes, by getting into a back & forth with the sales counter guy instead of asking to discuss the price with the manager. You can always escalate to someone with the ability (and possibly the inclination) to meet your request.

Second question, no - I think your request was reasonable.

Third question, I don't know you well enough to present an opinion, but I don't really think so.

Just my .02

 

[zeroncali]

and being a good driver means never flipping another driver off, never speeding, etc...Yes show me someone with a spotless driving record, and I'll show you a pedestrian...

I'm not going to read too much into the OP's dialogue, since...in my example, that same kid...told a very different version of his story, 20 minutes later...outside my club. You can imagine how his story changed again, when he noticed me looming in the background...

FWIW I have a spotless driving record.....

 

[Nev375]

yeah, in the end, yes.

Let's take the "(getting angry)" parts out, since I'm certain you, as a customer were turning the screw a little bit.

I'm not going to stick up for the rights of each and every music store, or business owner for that matter...but the incessant "well, I can get it online" line is hackwork, when it comes to negotiation.
Two days ago, I told a kid to tell it walking at a store, and a) I go to that store begrudgingly once/twice a year b) I certainly am not an employee. But he was laying into that line like it was a sacrament.
You want to get it from musician's friend, get it there.

and being a good driver means never flipping another driver off, never speeding, etc...Yes show me someone with a spotless driving record, and I'll show you a pedestrian...

I'm not going to read too much into the OP's dialogue, since...in my example, that same kid...told a very different version of his story, 20 minutes later...outside my club. You can imagine how his story changed again, when he noticed me looming in the background...

I have a perfect driving record. Been driving for 25 years some of which was for a living. Now, where is that pedestrian?

Is it the kid in your story? Because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the point of your story is from your posts. I get that you think the OP is a jerk though. I respectfully disagree with that.

Maybe the OP is not a very good negotiator, and yeah, bringing out the online competition angle was probably the worst move because it's a point of annoyance to brick and mortar stores that have a hard time competing. But that's business. They chose to get involved in music retail, and they have to compete with the big guys along with everyone else. They should know how to deal and treat customers better than this. All the OP did was point out the obvious truth.

 

[the Arsonaut]

All I'm doubting is the flow of dialogue in the story. I'm not calling out the OP, outside of what he asked. I'm sure the OP is a wonderful dancer/kind to animals.

as for driving records, I'm sticking to it. You're not going to convince me that you get cut off and give a wave to every driver on the road.

 

[bobbybass85]

I've worked a couple retail jobs in my life, and one was in a high-end (John Suhr, PRS, Modulus, Gibson, Fender, G&L etc) shop. I have rules about buying from any store:

1: Walk-in, look around. If in the first 5 minutes (that's an eternity in sales!) nobody has acknowledged me, I leave. I'll come back and try again another time if something caught my eye... but if it becomes a trend I stop going to that store. It's not hard as a sales person to walk away from a customer to let them think/talk/play for 5 minutes to check on someone who just came in.

2: Be upfront about your purpose. If your just looking, say it. If your looking to buy, say it. Nobody likes having their time wasted, so if you just want to check things out, let them know. They will most likely leave you alone to do so. If your buying, they SHOULD give you a little more attention.

3: Prices are prices, and it's the stores choice as to what the price is. The store has (in theory) purchased the item from the manufacturer. They own it. They can sell below MAP, at MAP, above MAP, whatever they want. If the price is above what you've seen advertised normally (not blow-out prices) then it's cool to see what they'll do.

4: If the price is at MAP I will ONLY ask about a better price if: there is wear and tear on the item; it's discontinued and has sat for a while; I'm on a first-name basis with the owner and staff.

As was said above, the incentive to buy local is the ability to play the instrument before it's yours. You can feel it, you can hear it, you can compare it side-to-side with other instruments.

All this is IMO/IME

 

[gordon5377]

yeah, in the end, yes.

Let's take the "(getting angry)" parts out, since I'm certain you, as a customer were turning the screw a little bit.

I'm not going to stick up for the rights of each and every music store, or business owner for that matter...but the incessant "well, I can get it online" line is hackwork, when it comes to negotiation.
Two days ago, I told a kid to tell it walking at a store, and a) I go to that store begrudgingly once/twice a year b) I certainly am not an employee. But he was laying into that line like it was a sacrament.
You want to get it from musician's friend, get it there.

I agree with you 100%, and this is the reason for my posting and asking the question. It is an effect of our world today, and I used the "I can get it online" deal. I could have found a better negotiation point. In retrospect, as some other TBers have noted, the ability to actually play the instrument and getting that exact instrument is worth something and paying a similar price to GC/MF probably was not a bad deal. I think I was more pissed at 'guitar-guy' and that may have been the spark for my discussion with the other guy downstairs. Incidentally, I found out from a friend of mine that they guy I talked to was the owner and he has lost his temper with other customers as well. Not that it makes my situation any different, just adding perspective.

 

[RotoRick]

Oh you're definitely a jerk, coming in to his store and being able to see the actual instrument you buy should be somewhat of an incentive, how about supporting the local economy? How much was the bass what kind of taxes are we talking about? You need to keep in mind his cost is probably higher than MF as well, unless he is part of a major buying group. Even though the customer service sucked, it still costs him money to have somebody talk to you.

He handled it terribly, especially for a business owner though. One should never talk to a customer like that, even if they are a lookey-loo... of which the instrument dealers have to deal with probably more than any other store. I wouldn't shop there again.

First of all no one cares about his cost. Second this is the future not only with music stores but even big box stores as well, you want to make a sale, match the online price period. Him trying to sell anything at list price is a good indication of someone trying to gouge your eyes out.

Do what I do, I hate brick music stores, they never have what you want, carry mostly bottom shelf stuff and always try to convince you to buy something you don't want.

So in the chance they do have what you want, try it out then order it online and laugh all the way to the bank.
i can't count the number of times a saleman who thinks I don't know anything has told me that his price is the sale price, when infact its list price. The music stores where I live actually match the bigger stores prices and I appreciate that and will do business with them.

But it doesn't cost me 300.00 dollars to drive 100 miles to another store if I have to. I would also guess that if you had bought it there and something was wrong with it the after the sale customer service would have sucked too. He won't be in business long, and that is a good thing.

 

[nickbass79]

I don't think you handled it wrong. Your experience started with attitude, instead of help, and ended worse than it started.

I worked in a local guitar shop(Family owned for 56 years) for 3 1/2 years while I was in college. We always had tags that listed the MSRP and then a note to ask our price. We, would then give a price, usually a little above MF, and give incentives, like free string change, setups and much more. If the customer said they wanted us to match MF, we did, but didn't add the incentives.

First and foremost, we were ALWAYS nice and helpful to the customer, despite if they were browsing or serious. Basic retail sales etiquette.

 

[the Arsonaut]

I agree with you 100%, and this is the reason for my posting and asking the question. It is an effect of our world today, and I used the "I can get it online" deal. I could have found a better negotiation point. In retrospect, as some other TBers have noted, the ability to actually play the instrument and getting that exact instrument is worth something and paying a similar price to GC/MF probably was not a bad deal. I think I was more pissed at 'guitar-guy' and that may have been the spark for my discussion with the other guy downstairs. Incidentally, I found out from a friend of mine that they guy I talked to was the owner and he has lost his temper with other customers as well. Not that it makes my situation any different, just adding perspective.

Like I say, I'm not going to get on a soapbox for store owners...but there are better ways of getting what you want...
It was kinda like you opened with what should have been the penultimate line.

As I read it the first time, I reckoned that if there was any truth to your story, it would be that the different fella behind the counter would actually be the owner. That's nothing new.

And, I might also guess, that this is not a New store, soon to be closing. Of course, with this economy...anything is possible.

 

[gordon5377]

I don't think you handled it wrong. Your experience started with attitude, instead of help, and ended worse than it started.

I worked in a local guitar shop(Family owned for 56 years) for 3 1/2 years while I was in college. We always had tags that listed the MSRP and then a note to ask our price. We, would then give a price, usually a little above MF, and give incentives, like free string change, setups and much more. If the customer said they wanted us to match MF, we did, but didn't add the incentives.

First and foremost, we were ALWAYS nice and helpful to the customer, despite if they were browsing or serious. Basic retail sales etiquette.

This is exactly the kind of give-and-take that I was expecting. But instead what I was presented was a price tag...that's all. If you would have been selling this guitar I would have bought from you!

 

[Commodore 64]

I'm willing to bet the person you talked to may have indeed been the manager or owner.If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you were trying to buy that bass in Kent, Ohio. Which is to say, I think that kind of attitude can be often found at local music shops, because I bet that they get hammered every day by hagglers and tire kickers. Selling at MF street price, is probably selling at a loss for them.

So, I can understand his feelings. However, as arguably the only intelligent, self-aware life form on this earth, I have a reasonable expectation that a clerk or business owner wouldn't treat me that way. As I get older and become increasingly self-aware, I am cognizant that people often don't hear what I mean when I tell them something. Whether it's due to poor delivery on my part, or preconceptions on the part of the other party, I don't know. But I find I'm happier giving people the benefit of the doubt.

10 years ago in your shoes, I'd probably feel like the guy was a dick, and not waste any energy second guessing myself. Today, I'd say he's probably a stressed-out, struggling business owner, and probably a member of your community. But then, today, I'd also be getting my instrument or amp on Craig's List. Either way, that store owner is in a bad spot.