Did I handle this the wrong way? LONG RANT

[Atoz]

The OP established that the bass in question was being offered at the MF price, so any haggling would over the amount of sales tax. Let's say that's $100. For me, that $100 buys the following:

- I walk out with the bass and am playing it the same day. No week of angst waiting for it to arrive from FedEx.

- I don't have to schedule an entire day around the FedEx guy.

- The bass isn't going to show up broken, so I won't have to go through the nightmare of filing a claim, getting an approval, and waiting a couple of weeks for a new bass to show up (and having to schedule another day around the FedEx guy), hoping that this one isn't broken, too.

- I get to choose the actual bass I intend to buy, without the risk of getting a dog mailed to me, in which case I have to go through the headache of sending it back, and waiting an additional couple of weeks to get my bass (with the added angst).

To me, it's TOTALLY worth the price of the sales tax, for the added peace of mind. If the tax is really causing me heartburn, I might ask them to throw in a setup or something. I'm a believer in stimulating the local economy, so that helps relieve the tax sting as well.

I agree that the store guy overreacted, and the other guy was too busy skirt-chasing to do his job properly, but I probably would have let that slide (OK, I probably would have mentioned it, but in a respectful manner), since I actually found something I really wanted. It never would have escalated into an argument.

 

[AuntieBeeb]

Yes and no. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the idea that high street shops have to match the online price or go bust: much as manufacturers strive for consistent quality, every guitar will be slightly different. The benefit the shop gives you is a chance to try several different basses and decide on their qualities; there's still no absolute guarantee that the same model order from Musician's Friend will play as well as the one you fell in love with in the shop. It's like a more expensive version of ordering clothes online and hoping they'll be a good fit.

Anyway, I'm deviating (EDIT: and I see Atoz has written the same thing far better just ahead of me!). So: he was rude to you, and I think I'd have been annoyed if I'd received that level of "service" when I was very likely going to buy a bass from them. That said, it's entirely up to him whether he offers you any sort of deal. You probably shouldn't have kept on pushing for one, but he didn't need to be so damn rude about it!

Maybe he was just annoyed because the hot girl left without taking his number...

 

[Munjibunga]

I think you did OK. I went into a mom 'n' pop store one day to buy some cables. I had done business with this company for over 30 years (but not with this guy, who is the owner). I was wearing a coat and tie (it was a work day). I asked what the discount was and got the same exact runaround as you. I bought the cables anyway. A month or so later, I needed something only they had so I went there again, not wanting to. This time I was in Levis. I brought my stuff up to the counter, and the same guy took about 10 percent off the price without me asking.

Coincidentally, I live four houses away from his brother, who owns another music store.

 

[throughthefire]

Here's the mistake the OP made; he stuck around in the shop.

If it was me, I'd have left after the salesman had pretty much ignored me like that. I wouldn't even have tried to negotiate, because I would know I wasn't going to win.

 

[skychief]

...I head downstairs and can’t find ‘guitar-guy’. Another guy from behind the counter asks if he can help me. I tell him ‘yes’.
Me: “How much do you want for that (black bass) you have upstairs?”
Him: “You mean the (insert bass name here)?”
Me: “Yeah”
Him: “Well what did the tag say?”
Me: “Well the tag says ($$$), but I want to know what you’ll take for it?”
Him: “I’m not sure I know what you mean. There’s a tag on it, that’s what we want for it.”
Me: “Well, it’s been my experience that those are usually a list or starting price and that if a guy is here with cash in-hand willing to take it from stock that you can make a better deal.”
Him: “Well, first, I’m not sure who else does business like that but we don’t. And second, that’s our best price.

Everything up to this point was kosher, imo. At this point when he says "thats our best (lowest) price", hes saying theres no room for negotiations. Coversation over. You should have left at this point. imo.

 

[RotoRick]

I'm willing to bet the person you talked to may have indeed been the manager or owner.If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you were trying to buy that bass in Kent, Ohio. Which is to say, I think that kind of attitude can be often found at local music shops, because I bet that they get hammered every day by hagglers and tire kickers. Selling at MF street price, is probably selling at a loss for them.

So, I can understand his feelings. However, as arguably the only intelligent, self-aware life form on this earth, I have a reasonable expectation that a clerk or business owner wouldn't treat me that way. As I get older and become increasingly self-aware, I am cognizant that people often don't hear what I mean when I tell them something. Whether it's due to poor delivery on my part, or preconceptions on the part of the other party, I don't know. But I find I'm happier giving people the benefit of the doubt.

10 years ago in your shoes, I'd probably feel like the guy was a dick, and not waste any energy second guessing myself. Today, I'd say he's probably a stressed-out, struggling business owner, and probably a member of your community. But then, today, I'd also be getting my instrument or amp on Craig's List. Either way, that store owner is in a bad spot.

Here is what is inexcusable, the OP said it was the largest store with the best selection, I would expect this from a small mom and pop store, but not a larger store. I have had good success with stores in the past, but you have to work on building a relationship with them first, go in the store alot, buy small stuff like strings, books, dvds and the such and let them get to know you.

Then when it comes time for the big purchase you are in a much better position to haggle and get a better price. They then appreciate your business and want to help you out knowing that you could just order it online.

Of course we don't always have time to do this, but the chances of getting a good price nowdays when they have only seen you once, is next to zero.

 

[placedesjardins]

Mmm, well, you weren't wrong. I guess you could have haggled in a more persuasive way. Skip the sales tax argument. You could have gone farther and said, "I went to Musician's Friend website and they are having a sale (a legitimate one lately was I think 15% ). 10% off anything over $x. Will you match that?"

That dude you talked to needs a lesson in Moroccan bazaar haggling. Even pretending to go a backroom to talk with a higher level manager would have sufficed. That's part of the game.

 

[notverygood]

No you did nothing wrong.

 

[Nomadskills]

The whole thing sounds like a disaster. I still wouldn't have handled it as you did though.

Most Independent music stores aren't like Musician's friend. They don't/ can't carry that type of inventory. It's why places like Walmart take over. They order SO much inventory that they can buy products cheaper and then sell them cheaper.

Being able to walk into a store and walk out with a bass is a convenience. On that MF can't provide. Not to mention set ups, repairs, mods that can be done in store, as well as, future discounts that you can receive once a relationship is established. It's all about relationships...

 

[HolmeBass]

OP I don't think you were in the wrong. When you asked what he would give you beyond MF prices, noting you had to pay tax, that's when he should have calmly and politely explained what many here have explained: you got to actually try before you buy, you get the instrument immediately without risking the wonders of UPS delivery, and you can bring it back to his store directly for warranty service- no RMAs or shipping costs needed. Plus you are helping local businesses, but that's more of an intangible. He should have calmly and politely stated the tangible benefits of shopping locally. In my opinion the staff at that store are incompetent. Work is not primarily for socializing, no matter how cute she is.

 

[Snarf]

To the OP:

You were completely in the wrong on the price issue. MF is a completely different business model. A local independent brick and mortar is simply a different kind of business. The guy probably has a lower profit margin, so keeping his prices in line with MF is hurting his business already.

He provides a service. That service is stocking instruments for sale that you can play before you buy. MF does not offer that service. If the store has a policy that the tag price is final, don't go in and start complaining to him. That's the absolute worst kind of customer, and makes for a terrible work environment. A lot of music store customers seem to feel entitled to be snarky when they don't get their way. If you would rather ship from MF and save the sales tax, and risk the things that could go wrong (incorrect shipment, damage, potential carrier hassles, returns, etc), then do it and stop insulting business owners with lowballs that probably are brushing up to their cost. The whole "give me an incentive to buy from you" line is hugely insulting, because the fact that you could walk into a place with instruments on the walls is already an incentive. Your sob story about "It's such a huge inconvenience for me to come to your store, I ought to get a discount for the trouble I went to to get here" is not a particularly effective argument, either.

He didn't handle it particularly well, and his employee seems like a moron. Those are separate issues though.

 

[bassinplace]

Based on the tone of the OP, it sounds like you might have been needling him a bit. But the way he handled it wasn't too great either. Ultimately you didn't want to buy and he didn't want to sell. Meh, no love lost.

 

[Southpaw5]

To the OP:

"give me an incentive to buy from you" line is hugely insulting, because the fact that you could walk into a place with instruments on the walls is already an incentive.

"Give me an incentive to buy from you" is the only reason to buy from any business. The incentive might be the chance to see or play the instrument for you, for others it might be the price. you're projection your values on the OP which may or may not be aligned.

I support local businesses whenever I can, but not if they have a bad attitude and poor salesmanship. As others have stated, the horny Guitar guy, and the owners inability to calmly explain why the price can't be lowered more would have quickly lost the sale from me.

there are a few music stores near me that can't compare price-wise to GC or MF,but they stay in business because of the customer service they provide, which seems to be forgotten these days by far too many.

 

[Snarf]

"Give me an incentive to buy from you" is the only reason to buy from any business.

Well, of course. I thought that went without saying. The incentives are so blindingly clear in this case: Play the instrument before buying, make sure the neck/truss and frets are okay (most important buying factor), walk out with it in your hands same day, no shipping involved with returns, etc. I'm not projecting any preachy values, I'm saying that if the OP wants to do business along different lines than the shop he visited does, then he shouldn't go around pissing off local shop owners, and should instead do business with online retailers.

 

[notverygood]

To the OP:

You were completely in the wrong on the price issue. MF is a completely different business model. A local independent brick and mortar is simply a different kind of business. The guy probably has a lower profit margin, so keeping his prices in line with MF is hurting his business already.

He provides a service. That service is stocking instruments for sale that you can play before you buy. MF does not offer that service. If the store has a policy that the tag price is final, don't go in and start complaining to him. That's the absolute worst kind of customer, and makes for a terrible work environment. A lot of music store customers seem to feel entitled to be snarky when they don't get their way. If you would rather ship from MF and save the sales tax, and risk the things that could go wrong (incorrect shipment, damage, potential carrier hassles, returns, etc), then do it and stop insulting business owners with lowballs that probably are brushing up to their cost. The whole "give me an incentive to buy from you" line is hugely insulting, because the fact that you could walk into a place with instruments on the walls is already an incentive. Your sob story about "It's such a huge inconvenience for me to come to your store, I ought to get a discount for the trouble I went to to get here" is not a particularly effective argument, either.

He didn't handle it particularly well, and his employee seems like a moron. Those are separate issues though.

You're right about different business models, but that's hardly the OP's problem. If the only way he can compete with MF is to sell the fact that you can play before buying, then he needed to make sure someone was up there helping him play. Just having a few instruments on the wall is no incentive. As far as pricing, the OP doesn't have any obligation to take the business owner's costs into his consideration. If he wants to offer a lower price that's his right. Frankly, I get tired of music stores having only one bass of a type on display. It's a used bass after one or two weeks of people slapping on it, dropping it, etc.

 

[pineapplerobot]

to the OP

I normally get to know the guys who work at my local guitar shops before I expect discounts. I have 3 main shops in Omaha: Dietze, Russos, and GC. One guy, a salesmen from Dietze, has sold me most of my instruments since I was 13 (I'm 25 now). The other guy I go to is at GC and him and I met at a show a couple years back. His band played after me and when he saw me attempting to squeeze my rig out of the back of my hatch back he said I could just use his, which would save everyone time and work with set up/tear down. These guys are who I go to with discounts. I ask what we can do with prices etc and normally they will throw in cables or just know off a good amount without me even asking. Because they both know I spend a **** ton on gear, I make them money, I make the store money, and they are my now long time friends. (Sorry this got long but I am trying to make a point.) The other day I went to get some new mics for my bands practice space and my friend at GC was walking out as I came in, his shift was over. He said (whatever other dudes name) would take care of me so I walked over to him. This guy has clearly seen me before, and acknowledged me with a "Hey man, how have you been?" but I don't know his name and I doubt he knew mine. After getting mics picked out and some longer mic cables we went to check out. Full price came up. I asked nicely if we can possible do anything about the price and he said "whats the tag say? [looks at tag] Yeah that's the price." Was a little annoyed? Yeah a little, but I was not upset and I had no reason to be. Guitar shops are not car dealerships. Yes they can knock off some from the price but I feel that's a discount you have to earn by being a repeat customer, not something that is given to everyone. Yeah, you handled the situation poorly, but I can see where you are coming from. I would much rather pay sales tax so I can play the bass I am going to buy over ordering it online. Frankly I hate the idea of buying an instrument I have not been able to play yet. Thats why I always ask my local shops to order the instrument for me. That way, even if I have to prepay, I can get a refund the same day I get to play it if I don't like how it feels.

You should never assume the place will try to help you out with a discount and you should never assume some dude who wants to buy a bass will beat out a pair of boobies.

 

[RaginRog]

If I was the owner, I would have told you to get the f--- out of my store as well. The give me an incentive would have probably put me over the edge...but I have little patience.


....you asked.

 

[Biggbass]

Rule #1 when you want to negotiate in a music store: Never deal with underlings.
Only discuss your deal with the manager or, if it's a mom & pop store, the owner.

 

[Southpaw5]

Well, of course. I thought that went without saying. The incentives are so blindingly clear in this case: Play the instrument before buying, make sure the neck/truss and frets are okay (most important buying factor), walk out with it in your hands same day, no shipping involved with returns, etc. I'm not projecting any preachy values, I'm saying that if the OP wants to do business along different lines than the shop he visited does, then he shouldn't go around pissing off local shop owners, and should instead do business with online retailers.

not exactly

You're right about different business models, but that's hardly the OP's problem. If the only way he can compete with MF is to sell the fact that you can play before buying, then he needed to make sure someone was up there helping him play. Just having a few instruments on the wall is no incentive. As far as pricing, the OP doesn't have any obligation to take the business owner's costs into his consideration. If he wants to offer a lower price that's his right. Frankly, I get tired of music stores having only one bass of a type on display. It's a used bass after one or two weeks of people slapping on it, dropping it, etc.

This is what I was getting at. The owned shot himself in the foot by getting agitated. In this case both of them were wrong, but the customer is always right, its a double standard, but that's life. The customer wasn't pissing the owner off, he was being a customer, asking questions, trying to get the best deal he could. The owner wasn't professional enough to handle it.

 

[Nev375]

If I were the employee, I'd say that I'm not allowed to discount below the sticker price. He would have to speak with the owner about that. I would apologize for my co-worker's inattention and assure him that should not have happened and that I will mention it to him. But I would also inquire if he liked the setup exactly and offer to tweak it more to his style and taste if he was interested enough to buy it. After all MF cannot guarantee a bass will be properly setup to any spec after shipping and if there's a defect or problem it could be a hassle with return shipping and it's going to mean more time without his bass. OTOH if he buys it here and now, he will be playing it as soon as he gets home and it will be properly intonated and comfortably adjusted to him personally.


That's what should have happened.

To the OP: I'm curious if that would that have swayed you into buying?