Did I just screw myself up?

[levis76]

Below is a review I found online for the SP410, interesting selection of head. I also found the comments on how it sounded at LOW VOLUME. Pass that on to Loud and see what they say.

Fresh Squeezed
I took the SP410 for a ride using a five-string Fender Jazz bass and a five-string Ibanez SR485 into an Ampeg SVT-4PRO, and let me tell you that playing through this tasty biscuit is a joy! Rich, full, mega-thick tones just pour out of it, and it moves substantial air. I mentioned earlier that the SP410 has no tweeter, just the 10" speakers for that vintage wallop. That might bother bassists who play styles I don’t, but it’s not a big deal to me. I prefer bass sounds from late ’60s and early ’70s, and the Orange SP410 definitely delivers a blast of that low tone from the past. Even at low volumes, it is as thick as an Iowa Pork Chop! (Yes. When asked nicely, sometimes bass players play at low volumes.) At moderate to high volumes, I felt like I was in front of a huge cabinet. Every George Porter bass line that I dropped on the SP410 sounded like the bass rigs of old. Again, small package—huge sound.

 

[kawika5150]

Below is a review I found online for the SP410, interesting selection of head. I also found the comments on how it sounded at LOW VOLUME. Pass that on to Loud and see what they say.

Fresh Squeezed
I took the SP410 for a ride using a five-string Fender Jazz bass and a five-string Ibanez SR485 into an Ampeg SVT-4PRO, and let me tell you that playing through this tasty biscuit is a joy! Rich, full, mega-thick tones just pour out of it, and it moves substantial air. I mentioned earlier that the SP410 has no tweeter, just the 10" speakers for that vintage wallop. That might bother bassists who play styles I don’t, but it’s not a big deal to me. I prefer bass sounds from late ’60s and early ’70s, and the Orange SP410 definitely delivers a blast of that low tone from the past. Even at low volumes, it is as thick as an Iowa Pork Chop! (Yes. When asked nicely, sometimes bass players play at low volumes.) At moderate to high volumes, I felt like I was in front of a huge cabinet. Every George Porter bass line that I dropped on the SP410 sounded like the bass rigs of old. Again, small package—huge sound.

Very reassurring to know. Thanks!

 

[christw]

I read thru the OP again slowly and realized I had skimmed right over this sentence without comprehending. Now that I have gone back and read it again many times slowly, I still don't understand. :scowl: Bass cabinets are just wood boxes with a small crossover usually and a few big ass speakers, so what is clipping the signal? Clipping occurrs when there is too much signal, the peaks get attenuated or clipped. How does a small or underpowered signal get clipped?

I heard the myth in this form once:

If you run say, a 100w amp clipping into a speaker, it's clipping will send solid DC current to the voice coil and because of this, the voice coil will melt down.

Don't worry, I don't believe it. Too many things wrong there. Just saying though, some people do. And that's what scares me.

 

[Mjury02]

If you were to buy another cable, make sure you check the speakon connectors to make sure they are 4 pole connectors, not all of them are. The last few cables that I have gotten at guitar center have only been 2 pole speakons, which is ok, as long as you don't want to modify them.

I've made that mistake before. I ended up buying a cable from www.greatcables.us and it came prelabeled on each end and is great quality.

Another option is to build your own, which you can buy both bulk cable and the speakon connectors from [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and assemble them yourself.

 

[levis76]

It's why we're here, to help each other out and hopefully keep each other from making large mistakes. That rig is going to kill most animals and small children if you aren't careful. If you plan on using it at home make sure your homeowners is up to date.

WARNING: Eminent volcanic activity on the island of Oahu when he fires this thing up!

 

[kawika5150]

It's why we're here, to help each other out and hopefully keep each other from making large mistakes. That rig is going to kill most animals and small children if you aren't careful. If you plan on using it at home make sure your homeowners is up to date.

WARNING: Eminent volcanic activity on the island of Oahu when he fires this thing up!

Haha! Sad thing is that I can't really practice at home unless it's at a REALLY quiet volume. Two young daughters and they already recognize daddy playing "La Villa..." and "Natural Science."

I need to look at which Speakons I have if they have the 4 wires.

 

[levis76]

I heard the myth in this form once:

If you run say, a 100w amp clipping into a speaker, it's clipping will send solid DC current to the voice coil and because of this, the voice coil will melt down.

Don't worry, I don't believe it. Too many things wrong there. Just saying though, some people do. And that's what scares me.

This does have some truth to it. If you chop the tops and bottoms of the output waveform too much, constant clipping, the tops no longer look like a sine wave, but more like a square wave. The flattened tops of the waves would act more like a repetitive DC signal being applied, this is what happens when you clip an amp due to too much signal to the preamp (hot pickups or pedal) or too much signal from the preamp to the power amp, overloading the power section and causing it to clip out. Most amps today will trip out on a thermal shutdown before your speakers are in any danger. Notice how nowhere in that explanation is the word underpowered used. Clipping is a hard limiter, you have reached beyond the operating limitations of said device. Solid state power sections usually sound like crap when they clip, but tubes clip in a different way, they go into saturation, or overdrive , and we like that.

 

[christw]

Well, what I'm just saying is that a 500w amp can easily deliver more power over time than a clipping 100w amp will. So does that mean that the speakers should melt faster when using the non-"underpowering" 500w amp? Of course not! Because they won't melt from the 100w amp "underpowering" in the first place. It contradicts itself.

 

[kawika5150]

These two cabs are small and compact, just the way they wanted to design it. The only way I can see stacking these two is the 410 on the bottom and the 212 on top of it. Is it common to stack them vertically?

 

[David Jayne]

And below is the email I received from Loud Tech. Inc.:

I wouldn’t recommend running the cabinet in a dual-mono configuration. The cabinets would be under powered by so much that you would likely send the cabinet a clipped signal.

I think what Loud is attempting to say without dissing their own product too much is that the power amp sections just aren't all that strong into an 8ohm load, so you'll likely clip them when attempting significant volumes running them that way. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[lbwdog]

I need to look at which Speakons I have if they have the 4 wires.

For bridging, you don't need four wires, just the Speakon 4 pole connectors. You're actually only using two wires, but need to connect them to 1+/2+ at the amp end, and 1+ /1- at the cab end. Again, that is only for bridging, which i don't recommend unless you just don't have enough volume running off each side of the amp.

I also didn't see anybody recommending bi-amping (separating the lows and highs), only running one cab off side "A", and the other off side "B". Technically, that's considered a stereo configuration. Just don't separate the cabs as you would in a hi-fi setup.

 

[kawika5150]

For bridging, you don't need four wires, just the Speakon 4 pole connectors. You're actually only using two wires, but need to connect them to 1+/2+ at the amp end, and 1+ /1- at the cab end. Again, that is only for bridging, which i don't recommend unless you just don't have enough volume running off each side of the amp.

I also didn't see anybody recommending bi-amping (separating the lows and highs), only running one cab off side "A", and the other off side "B". Technically, that's considered a stereo configuration. Just don't separate the cabs as you would in a hi-fi setup.

Yes, I misspoke when I wrote "wires" when I meant "poles."
You are also correct that no one recommended the biamp option. Being that the 12's would be more capable of producing the low frequencies, is this something that I should not even attempt as would it not even make a noticeable difference?

 

[christw]

Yes, I misspoke when I wrote "wires" when I meant "poles."
You are also correct that no one recommended the biamp option. Being that the 12's would be more capable of producing the low frequencies, is this something that I should not even attempt as would it not even make a noticeable difference?

Try reading up on any of the hundreds of threads on speaker size and matched cabs on here. Many links in the amps faq: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/a...overunderpowercabs-diy-techtalk-links-166225/

 

[JimmyM]

I think what Loud is attempting to say without dissing their own product too much is that the power amp sections just aren't all that strong into an 8ohm load, so you'll likely clip them when attempting significant volumes running them that way. Hope I'm wrong.

i don't know on what planet you live, but on my planet, 300w is pretty insanely loud.

 

[lbwdog]

You are also correct that no one recommended the biamp option. Being that the 12's would be more capable of producing the low frequencies, is this something that I should not even attempt as would it not even make a noticeable difference?

Right!....This is myth: 12's would be more capable of producing the low frequencies
Reason: Most 4x10s I've played produce beefier lows with more volume than most 2x12s I've played.

While I'm not experienced with these particular cabs, I would try this setup first.
[1] Connect both cabs (daisychain) to one side ("A") of the amp. This will give you a 4 Ohm impedance, and should be plenty of power.
[2] If the two cabs sound unbalanced, try one on each side of the amp (A & B), then you can adjust each cab's level independently at the amp.

Only try mono bridge mode if it's still not powerful enough, but I'll bet example #1 will be fine.

 

[levis76]

i don't know on what planet you live, but on my planet, 300w is pretty insanely loud.

+1 on that one. A 4PRO is gonna be loud through whatever you plug into it. Besides, if he runs a "stereo" (not really, still mono, just mono from two output sections) setup then he is running each cabinet at 300W, which in total is 600W. Still, one cabinet at 300W is going to be enough to play any venue on the islands and here on the mainland for that matter. If there isn't any PA support, or your rockin the beach you might want to pack the other cab along just in case. I really don't think bridging is necessary in any event, unless you wanted the extra headroom for some extreme tone shaping. Orange cabs are great for dub and reggae and so are Ampegs for that matter.

 

[will33]

I wouldn’t recommend running the cabinet in a dual-mono configuration. The cabinets would be under powered by so much that you would likely send the cabinet a clipped signal.

If this is what they told you, it's BS. There is no such thing as underpowering. Speakers are tested using 1 (that's one) watt of power. If that was "underpowering" them, they wouldn't make it to the sales rack. You can use any amp you want with any speakers you want of you're smart about it, ie: don't crank a 1000 watt amp into a 10watt speaker, or don't send 1000 watts into a cab with a displacement limit of 80 watts in the lows. That's trying to "upsell" marketing bs, likely made up by someone who couldn't play the bass to save their life.

 

[kawika5150]

[1] Connect both cabs (daisychain) to one side ("A") of the amp. This will give you a 4 Ohm impedance, and should be plenty of power.
[2] If the two cabs sound unbalanced, try one on each side of the amp (A & B), then you can adjust each cab's level independently at the amp.

Only try mono bridge mode if it's still not powerful enough, but I'll bet example #1 will be fine.

For option #2, there isn't a separate level for each on the amp. My first consideration was to try option #1.

Diamond Head has been extinct for quite some time. Maybe not for much longer.

 

[kawika5150]

If this is what they told you, it's BS. There is no such thing as underpowering. Speakers are tested using 1 (that's one) watt of power. If that was "underpowering" them, they wouldn't make it to the sales rack. You can use any amp you want with any speakers you want of you're smart about it, ie: don't crank a 1000 watt amp into a 10watt speaker, or don't send 1000 watts into a cab with a displacement limit of 80 watts in the lows. That's trying to "upsell" marketing bs, likely made up by someone who couldn't play the bass to save their life.

See, I didn't really get this either. Even if I pump 300 watts to each cab, the SP410 is rated at 1200 and the SP212 at 600. And yes, my OP was taken directly from their email response.

Oh, and I made these two damn purchases today, each from a different company. The 410 was from Amazon $1150, and the 212 was $899 which also included shipping costs all the way across the sea. I couldn't turn it down. I just won't eat for the next five months save for maybe some Tic Tacs.

 

[kawika5150]

Trying to post pics of the two and wondering how the heck I'm gonna stack these:

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