Differences between a frettless and a fretted bass

[Jeff Scott]

i've had a couple of my extra/spare basses turned into fretless over the decades ... did that to a older Yamaha BX1 headless bass and also a Alembic Elan II ( whoops .! ) ...

I had a BX-5 that I bought new in '87 and took to John Carruthers to have it turned into a fretless! He removed the frets, put in plastic filler and added a clear mylar tape to the surface. He also made a curved, dark smoky grey plexi leg rest so I could comfortably play the bass seated.

In the mid '90s I bought a used Alembic Exploiter and had Kurt Wright make that fretless.

Both basses are long gone, but not because they were fretless. I moved on to ZON fretless basses, and now a Martin Keith Elfin 5 fretless (and a fretted one, too).

My first fretless bass was a '73 Telecaster Bass that I pulled the frets out of after hearing Percy Jones when Unorthodox Behaviour came out.

 

[Martin Beer]

Thank you so much for responding to my question very quickly, I am having issues with the frets on my bass and was going to attempt to remove them or have them removed do you foresee issues with doing such a thing?

This seems like the wrong reason to go fretless IMO. I can understand converting your bass because you want the sound of a fretless, but the skillset needed to de-fret a bass and get it playing nicely as a fretless is not very different to that required to sort out your frets.

 

[tpaul]

Leo Fender named his invention the "Precision Bass" because it had frets, which would allow bass players to hit the notes with precision.

Now, if you can do that without frets, or want to learn to do it without frets, or want to play microtonal music, or don't care about being precise... by all means, remove the frets. But if you are simply having fret problems, why not address that by fixing them, rather than removing them?

 

[Doner Designs]

Ok, after seeing the thread title in the top list for the past 24 hours or so, I can no longer resist.

Fretless does not have frets. Fretted has frets. Sorry, but I still enjoy 5 year old humor and find farts and belches to be hilarious.

 

[Ballin'bass]

Let's clarify - it's hard to get that bright 'slap & pop' sound without a metal fret for the string to smack against.
There are people who can and do both slap and pop on fretless (with some risk of damage to the fingerboard) but it is not the 'expected' sound.

Some would argue the essence of artistry is making unexpected sounds work - but that's a different conversation...

I agree with you. But besides just slap and pop, to my ears, funk sound best with a nice, clean, strong attack to each note. It helps it sound clean and tight, which is absolutely necessary in funk, I don't care who you are. So being that fretless does not have quick clean attack, but rather the opposite, I'd say they are definitely not ideal for funk... Though there are exceptions to every rule. I mean Jaco, right?...

But how many of us are jaco? And how many of us can make a fretless sound quick and tight? And also slapping does generally sound kind of freaky on fretless.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

I think it depends on what you play. Simple bass lines would not be so much different to play on a fretless, but depending on the complexity of what you play, it might get a little difficult.

Here is a few tips (btw, by no means I claim that I'm a good fretless or a fretted player):

- Play a fretless that is just like your fretted bass but with no frets obviously. This way you'd be more in tune as your muscle memory will help.
- When you play the fretless, you need to be playing right on where the frets would be. When you play the fretted bass, try to play as close to the frets as possible. This would help you build muscle memory.
- When you play alone, check your intonation by playing open strings as a reference. Use a looper pedal or have someone else playing with you, and pay attention to your intonation. Also little vibrato helps

There're advantages and disadvantages of playing both. I found that playing in a rhythm section, you might get a little lost in the mix with a fretless especially if you're playing at a higher tempo. This is due to the fact that a fretless bass has a very slow attack and it takes time for the note to build up. You can't be as percussive as you would be with a fretted bass. That's being said, one of my favorite extreme metal bands "Death" had a bass player who played a fretless and sounded amazing! Check out their album 'Individual Thought Patterns". Fretless is fun and has a very vocal like sound quality that is very organic and beautiful. Plus you have infinite number of notes!

 

[Les Ismoor]

This seems like the wrong reason to go fretless IMO. I can understand converting your bass because you want the sound of a fretless, but the skillset needed to de-fret a bass and get it playing nicely as a fretless is not very different to that required to sort out your frets.

I would tend to agree with this way of thinking. What is the bass you are having fret troubles with? Rather than (possibly) mucking up a bass that may just need a little fret TLC, I'd look for an inexpensive fretless that was made that way. I've owned quite a few fretless bassses over the years, and the one that I liked least was a de-fretted Rick 4001.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

All depends on what your interest is. Frettless has a tone all its own that is hard to replicate on a fretted bass. Been playing for over 50 yrs, and doing frettless and up-right for over 35 yrs. So it all depends.

Frettless does take practice, even if you have fret line markers. So be willing to devote a little time to making sure you have precise notes, when playing. But the options for semi-quavers are so cool and the tones for certain types of music are certainly worth it. I usually gig with at least one frettless in the arsenal just for certain songs. The third Spector (L to R) is a Frettless conversion with Rotosound Tru Bass Nylon Wrapped strings. Killer sound for sure. and a fun bass to play.

 

[Hamish MacCleod]

I don't own any basses with frets [anymore]. I found the frets limiting. I play fingerstyle [mostly], blues and blues/rock [mostly]. There are some genres that sound odd with a fretless but you soon modify basslines and find a whole new sound playing a familiar tune. For me, and your experiences may be quite different, I found switching from fretted to fretless and back again the most difficult, once I decided on the sound/tone that made up most of my playing I went all fretless. Lots of guys will tell you just the opposite of what I just told you, they aren't wrong [for them], this is a very personal thing. Which is better? Ford or Chevy, Dodge or Toyota? Blondes or Brunettes, or Redheads? Then you have strings. Flats or rounds? I think you get where I'm coming from. Buy some inexpensive fretless to try out [Rondo, Squier, pawnshop] then decide.
Rondo

 

[brianrost]

rondodunbar has a good point. A friend of mine has been playing fretless since the late 70s and he's played in blues bands, rock bands, country bands, funk bands....all on the same fretless P-bass he bought 40 years ago.

 

[11guitarguy]

Well hello friends here at talk bass, You all were correct with your responses to all my threads. I also appreciate the honest opinions and the humor that you all impart on this forum. It one of the best communities that I have been apart of in a long time.

I am curious to know how much different is it to play a fret less bass then a fretted one. What I am looking for is to know how much harder it is to play. Is there any advantage one over the other...

Whatever you have to tell me I sure I will get a better understanding... Thanks!

In the wake of all the various opinions and advice, all of which are valid, let me add my two cents to the mix. A fretless is going to feel different than a fretted because there are no frets (duh). A fretless is made to sound different than a fretted as well. A fretless bass allows you to get that mwah sound that makes most of the ladies in the room who are over 25 think horizontally and isn't that what it's all about anyway? (just messin with ya bro')

In my opinion and especially if you are playing for an audience nothing looks more lame than a player who looks at the neck when he plays and gives the audience a great view of the top of his head. An occasional glance to see where you are is cool but mostly you want to be smiling at that chick with the tight jeans and wearing the 5" spiked heel "shag me pumps" on her feet.

This requires that you play a lot and get your ear used to the sound as well as having your fingers remember the distance between frets. This will come as you play so play a lot. Did I mention that you should play a lot? Once your finger know where they should be your ears will guide you to the right place on the fretboard. Hey, is a fretboard called a fretless board if you're playing a fretless?

I think a fretless is a great addition to every players stable.

Time for another opinion: If you say, "I have to practice" I recommend that you take up stamp collecting or mountain climbing. If you say, "I cannot wait to play my bass" because you love to play .. you will become a good solid bassist. If, while in the throes of passionate lovemaking you stop in mid thrust, jump off and pick up your bass ... you will be a driven motivated and horny bassist but nothing good comes without some personal sacrifice.

Once your ear becomes your guide you will be "poopin' in tall cotton" Good luck and remember to play a lot.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

If you defret your bass yourself DO NOT FORGET TO LOOSEN THE TRUSSROD FIRST. Otherwise the tension causes to chip the fretboard when you pull them off (learned this at my expense)

 

[Nephilymbass]

Well hello friends here at talk bass, You all were correct with your responses to all my threads. I also appreciate the honest opinions and the humor that you all impart on this forum. It one of the best communities that I have been apart of in a long time.

I am curious to know how much different is it to play a fret less bass then a fretted one. What I am looking for is to know how much harder it is to play. Is there any advantage one over the other...

Whatever you have to tell me I sure I will get a better understanding... Thanks!

I played fretted bass for over 20 years before getting my first fretless. For me playing Fretless with lines is no problem. I adjusted and was playing with pretty decent intonation by the end of the first band practice with my fretless. What takes longer is developing fretless techniques; for example getting a nice vibrato, and nailing those harmonic slides. Im actually selling my fretless though. It is a lot of fun to play but I just don't really have the right gig for it at the moment.

 

[zontar]

It sounds like you'd be better off to get the bass fixed or get a new bass than to de-fret the existing bass.
Nothing wrong with adding a fretless bass by buying one--especially if you find a good deal.

Playing wise--some people take to fretless quite easily--some don't.
I was in between, but fretless wasn't as big a change/jump as I thought it would be.

And I find it a lot more fun.
maybe you will too.

 

[Dukecrescent]

I don't own any basses with frets [anymore]. I found the frets limiting. I play fingerstyle [mostly], blues and blues/rock [mostly]. There are some genres that sound odd with a fretless but you soon modify basslines and find a whole new sound playing a familiar tune. For me, and your experiences may be quite different, I found switching from fretted to fretless and back again the most difficult, once I decided on the sound/tone that made up most of my playing I went all fretless. Lots of guys will tell you just the opposite of what I just told you, they aren't wrong [for them], this is a very personal thing. Which is better? Ford or Chevy, Dodge or Toyota? Blondes or Brunettes, or Redheads? Then you have strings. Flats or rounds? I think you get where I'm coming from. Buy some inexpensive fretless to try out [Rondo, Squier, pawnshop] then decide.
Rondo

Yes I Con Cur!

 

[Dukecrescent]

Hey all I wanted to Thank you for responding to this thread I enjoyed all that I have read and will explore it all further the differences in Sam Ash tonight after work...

 

[Eilif]

Despite what some folks here have implied/suggested, most folks find that learning fretless IS more difficult. That is not to say that it isn't rewarding and a great sound to add to your arsenal, but it's not inherently easy for anyone with good fretted technique to pick up.

However, bad fretwork is not a good reason to take up fretless. Listen to fretless players and find a fretless bass to play (or buy a cheap one) and decide if it's really for you before jumping in with both feet.

 

[bassbenj]

I don't own any basses with frets [anymore]. I found the frets limiting. I play fingerstyle [mostly], blues and blues/rock [mostly]. There are some genres that sound odd with a fretless but you soon modify basslines and find a whole new sound playing a familiar tune. For me, and your experiences may be quite different, I found switching from fretted to fretless and back again the most difficult, once I decided on the sound/tone that made up most of my playing I went all fretless. Lots of guys will tell you just the opposite of what I just told you, they aren't wrong [for them], this is a very personal thing. Which is better? Ford or Chevy, Dodge or Toyota? Blondes or Brunettes, or Redheads? Then you have strings. Flats or rounds? I think you get where I'm coming from. Buy some inexpensive fretless to try out [Rondo, Squier, pawnshop] then decide.
Rondo

I do own both fretted and fretless basses. In fact, I love to have more or less identical basses in fretted/fretless pairs. (But I don't have pairs of all of them) I DO find fretless to allow more expression in blues and blues/rock. But with proper technique (it's all in the fingers! ) You can get a fretted sound from a fretless up to a point. And that point is this: You can put round wound strings on a fretted that gives a nice bright sound. A fretless tends to be more muted even with rounds and I don't use rounds at all on fretless because it chews expensive fingerboards. My standard fretless strings are ground wounds which are brighter than flats, but not piano-bright. So you can see why I like the pair thing. Fretted set up with bright rounds for that kind of tone and fretless set up with flats or grounds so save the fingerboard and give a more mellow tone.

Of course as Rondodunbar says, whether you want the bright fretted tone or the smoother fretless tone, depends on your personally taste and the music you are playing etc. Obviously neither is "best". Which is why I like to have both available.

Let me say also that if you play fretted "correctly" which is to press the strings right behind the given fret, switching to fretless won't be much of a problem expecially with lined necks. However, if you have developed sloppy playing habits of just pressing a string anywhere between the two frets, you are going to have to train yourself out of that to play fretless.

 

[Hamish MacCleod]

To add to what bassbenj said: I have TI flats on one bass, TI Jazz rounds on another, Roto 88's on a third, and have commissioned a dual course bass that will have TI rounds on the fundamental and TI flats on the octave. All of them are 32" scale, all have a single Lace pickup, and all are wired direct to the jack. Sometimes, less is more IMHO. No right or wrong, just different.
Rondo

 

[AltGrendel]

I think it depends on what you play. Simple bass lines would not be so much different to play on a fretless, but depending on the complexity of what you play, it might get a little difficult.

Here is a few tips (btw, by no means I claim that I'm a good fretless or a fretted player):

- Play a fretless that is just like your fretted bass but with no frets obviously. This way you'd be more in tune as your muscle memory will help.
- When you play the fretless, you need to be playing right on where the frets would be. When you play the fretted bass, try to play as close to the frets as possible. This would help you build muscle memory.
- When you play alone, check your intonation by playing open strings as a reference. Use a looper pedal or have someone else playing with you, and pay attention to your intonation. Also little vibrato helps

There're advantages and disadvantages of playing both. I found that playing in a rhythm section, you might get a little lost in the mix with a fretless especially if you're playing at a higher tempo. This is due to the fact that a fretless bass has a very slow attack and it takes time for the note to build up. You can't be as percussive as you would be with a fretted bass. That's being said, one of my favorite extreme metal bands "Death" had a bass player who played a fretless and sounded amazing! Check out their album 'Individual Thought Patterns". Fretless is fun and has a very vocal like sound quality that is very organic and beautiful. Plus you have infinite number of notes!

For tips, I would also add this: Do not be afraid to learn a line on a fretted bass and move it over to the fretless. I do it all the time.