Different kind of overdrive request

[bongomania]

If bongo still has a DOD FX25 maybe I can convince him to try the Holy Fire after it.

Your wish is my command!

So, at first I listened to the clips other people posted, and I thought to myself "surely he can get all of those tones already." Then I listened to the King Tubby and Scientist clips, and I thought to myself "oh dear... the holy grail of reggae bass... impossible to achieve without saturating both a transformer-driven mixer channel and a reel-to-reel tape machine."

Then I plugged an FX25 into the Holy Fire, and within two minutes of experimentation I freaking nailed that tone. Well, not nailed precisely, but the sound I got was as you described: their dub tone plus a bit more grit on top, to an equal degree from the highest notes to the lowest. One other thing though is the HF has no EQ shape of its own, so even with the Moog inline you might still want a little boost in the low mids, feeding into a hard limiter, to absolutely stone cold hammer that tone.

 

[Jared Lash]

Your wish is my command!

So, at first I listened to the clips other people posted, and I thought to myself "surely he can get all of those tones already." Then I listened to the King Tubby and Scientist clips, and I thought to myself "oh dear... the holy grail of reggae bass... impossible to achieve without saturating both a transformer-driven mixer channel and a reel-to-reel tape machine."

Then I plugged an FX25 into the Holy Fire, and within two minutes of experimentation I freaking nailed that tone. Well, not nailed precisely, but the sound I got was as you described: their dub tone plus a bit more grit on top, to an equal degree from the highest notes to the lowest. One other thing though is the HF has no EQ shape of its own, so even with the Moog inline you might still want a little boost in the low mids, feeding into a hard limiter, to absolutely stone cold hammer that tone.

RIGHT ON. Now we're getting somewhere. And thanks to everyone else that has posted clips and ideas. I've definitely got some things to try, but I think the Holy Fire will be the first one I check out. One question though, why the hard limiter?

Thanks again bongo.

 

[bongomania]

One question though, why the hard limiter?

Because IMO that is an integral part of that sound: a massive bump in the low mids hitting a brick wall hard. Traditionally achieved with old radio-broadcast tube limiters and reel-reel tape, which also provided the thick breakup.

It's not strictly necessary, just an added quality to try out. I'll try a couple of limiter pedals later on and see if any of them are worth a go.

Edit: OK, tried the Maxon and the Pigtronix. Both did an excellent job of protecting the rest of my gear from clipping, but neither added anything special to the tone. Except insofar as I was able to really dig in on those low notes, which blasted the Holy Fire harder for a more broken-up sound, without having to worry about whether it would send my speakers across the room.

 

[Mudfuzz]

Because IMO that is an integral part of that sound: a massive bump in the low mids hitting a brick wall hard. Traditionally achieved with old radio-broadcast tube limiters and reel-reel tape, which also provided the thick breakup.

+1

 

[Jared Lash]

Gotcha.

Thanks a bunch bongo - I've been trying to get close to this sound forever. I was even late to my gig Friday night because I was playing around so much (just a fretless/acoustic guitar/Mike Doughty type thing at a coffee shop) trying to get anywhere in the ballpark. I was starting to think it was a lost cause.

I'd love to hear some limiter suggestions or even a clip if possible.

 

[Mudfuzz]

I'd love to hear some limiter suggestions or even a clip if possible.

Warning! you are about to enter a dark land that will give you all new forms of turmoil

Most of the info you need is in bongomania's list, and all I can say myself is on all the comps and limiters I've used over the years that are on Bongo's list I agree with eveything Bongo says.

Have fun!

 

[jaredfoster]

try to check out a crowther prunes & custard. that adds some grit perfectly

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

try to check out a crowther prunes & custard. that adds some grit perfectly

Am I wrong in thinking that the P&C is very much a dilithium crystals-powered spacegun distortion?

 

[Jared Lash]

Warning! you are about to enter a dark land that will give you all new forms of turmoil

Most of the info you need is in bongomania's list, and all I can say myself is on all the comps and limiters I've used over the years that are on Bongo's list I agree with eveything Bongo says.

Have fun!

Oh, believe me - I've spent a LOT of time reading bongo's reviews (don't tell my boss) on comps and traded a number of PMs on them. But my personal preference runs towards super squishy sounds and not hard limiters. And he said he'd try out a few and I was hoping for a recommendation for this specific purpose. I do have an Alesis Micro Limiter though . . .

Because IMO that is an integral part of that sound: a massive bump in the low mids hitting a brick wall hard. Traditionally achieved with old radio-broadcast tube limiters and reel-reel tape, which also provided the thick breakup.

It's not strictly necessary, just an added quality to try out. I'll try a couple of limiter pedals later on and see if any of them are worth a go.

Edit: OK, tried the Maxon and the Pigtronix. Both did an excellent job of protecting the rest of my gear from clipping, but neither added anything special to the tone. Except insofar as I was able to really dig in on those low notes, which blasted the Holy Fire harder for a more broken-up sound, without having to worry about whether it would send my speakers across the room.

Bummer about the Maxon but not unexpected. I've got a dbx 166A so I figured if the CP9+ worked then so would it, but they are more about super clean compression than brick wall limiting. As I said, I'm thinking of ordering a Holy Fire and trying the Alesis but I'm still open to other recommendations for a limiter.

Side note: bongo have you considered changing your username? It's only on my mind because I'm changing mine and I remember you saying that you only chose bongomania because you thought you had to declare your drum business. I still like Machacadora. Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Mudfuzz]

Oh, believe me - I've spent a LOT of time reading bongo's reviews (don't tell my boss) on comps and traded a number of PMs on them. But my personal preference runs towards super squishy sounds and not hard limiters. And he said he'd try out a few and I was hoping for a recommendation for this specific purpose. I do have an Alesis Micro Limiter though . . .

I have three of those, great sounding limiter but I find them a little noisy. For the sound you are tying for and a in a pedal format I like the old red MXR Limiter, which I think is better sounding then the micro but if you set it too hard it will squash your sub lows too much, i.e. octavers and such.

 

[Darkstrike]

If its a tube like grit you're after, why not an English Muffin, or ValveDrive, or similar, would they do it, or are they too muddy for what you're after?

 

[Jared Lash]

Am I wrong in thinking that the P&C is very much a dilithium crystals-powered spacegun distortion?

Yes, you are wrong - it's an Harmonic Generator-Intermodulator.

If you have the Mix off and the Drive up fairly high you get this great overdrive sound. It's only when you turn the mix up and the filter starts doing it's thing that you get the crazy synth sounds.

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

Interesting. I had never heard it demonstrated any other way than to portray the sound for which a phaser and a blaster must have mated.

Makes me want one even more now though.

 

[rcubed]

Check out this clip I did of the "furr" pedal I have: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7558032

It adds second harmonic distortion to your clean signal. I change the amount of distortion that is blended in as the clip progresses.

 

[Mudfuzz]

A Guyatone BL2 might work, I find it noisy and easy to overload but that is kind of it's charm.

 

[whoatherechunk]

maybe a quantum drive? never have had experience with one but they seem interesting and unique. maybe grygrx can chime in.

 

[Jared Lash]

If its a tube like grit you're after, why not an English Muffin, or ValveDrive, or similar, would they do it, or are they too muddy for what you're after?

Hard to tell as I haven't used either of them other than the Muff'n once briefly in a store. The difficulty is that dirt pedals seem to sound so different when being fed with such a low EQ'd signal. I like the VT Bass, but in this context it loses all its versatility.

Interesting. I had never heard it demonstrated any other way than to portray the sound for which a phaser and a blaster must have mated.

That's because apparently there's a rule that you can only demonstrate a pedal at it's most extreme settings - or at least it certainly seems that way sometimes. Anyway, it's a cool pedal that I regret letting go of.

A Guyatone BL2 might work, I find it noisy and easy to overload but that is kind of it's charm.

Yeah, I had a BL2 briefly and liked it okay. It worked well as a small limiter for the DOD FX25 when I used it as a normal filter. The advantage of the Alesis Micro Limiter is that I already have one and therefore doesn't cost me any more money.

But if there was a limiter that I was sure would be significantly better I'd be fine with shelling out for it.

 

[Darkstrike]

Hard to tell as I haven't used either of them other than the Muff'n once briefly in a store. The difficulty is that dirt pedals seem to sound so different when being fed with such a low EQ'd signal. I like the VT Bass, but in this context it loses all its versatility.

I see what you mean, this is why I hate shopping for pedals, no matter what the specs say, what its designed for, what soundclips you hear, you're never gonna know if its gonna work or not until you've given it a few weeks of time. You do really need to hear it in the contex you're gonna use it for, with your gear, and for long enough to get over the honeymoon period too.

Someone needs to open a pedal rental service!

 

[Mudfuzz]

But if there was a limiter that I was sure would be significantly better I'd be fine with shelling out for it.

I'd like to as well, I love limiters. All the stuff I can think of is studio stuff which is overkill for just a effect..............to me anyway.

 

[Jared Lash]

maybe a quantum drive? never have had experience with one but they seem interesting and unique. maybe grygrx can chime in.

Seems like an interesting OD. Of course, I don't want to just start randomly buying overdrives in the hope that one of them will work for this application. The Holy Fire was a first thought for me because really I think an uncolored OD that just puts a little hair on is best for such a deep bass tone. Otherwise I think it will get brassy and mushy like the VT Bass did.

I see what you mean, this is why I hate shopping for pedals, no matter what the specs say, what its designed for, what soundclips you hear, you're never gonna know if its gonna work or not until you've given it a few weeks of time. You do really need to hear it in the contex you're gonna use it for, with your gear, and for long enough to get over the honeymoon period too.

Someone needs to open a pedal rental service!

Yeah, finding individual pedals I like is easy, I do it every day around here (damn GAS) but finding pedals that work well together to build the sounds I need often proves tough.

So it's good that bongo stepped forward. Not only does he have the pedals (and comp knowledge) that I wanted to try combining but was familiar with the tone I'm going for and how it was originally obtained.

I'd like to as well, I love limiters. All the stuff I can think of is studio stuff which is overkill for just a effect..............to me anyway.

Yeah, considering my love of squelchy filters a limiter's not a bad idea anyway, but I don't want to spend a ton if I don't have to.