Digital mixers ... can anyone compare quality ?

[DWBass]

would any of you more experienced sound folks choose an analog board over a digital board these days ?
I have been paying more attention to the various PA's that the bands I'm in use, and I can absolutely see the benefit of the analog board with each of the pre/input controls all available at once (channel strip style) instead of having to flip menus on a digital control surface.
The other benefit seems to be that due to the strong demand for digital boards, the analog boards (at least in the sizes that I am interested in ... 16 or 18 inputs) are fairly cheap by comparison (at least it seems that way after a quick check on the web today).

The band I run sound for is a small band. Using a Mackie 1402VLZ, I use between 4-8 channels max depending on the gig. It sits on top of a racked reverb unit. I can't justify upgrading at this time even though what I would need wouldn't cost but a few hundred dollars. Maybe next year since I'm the only one doing the investing.

 

[Paulabass]

While I can’t argue the Behringer has more aux outs at the price point, I will say that the Soundcraft Ui16 has the best interface and onboard effects/anti feedback/ etc of all the digital mixers at or near this price point. XR18 is ok - but the Ui is FAR more intuitive and imo quieter than the XR. I’ve played through all of them except the Mackie - nobody seems to want to buy them.

Soundcrafts feedback eliminators are worth the price of admission. If you mix yourself from stage they are great!

 

[richntiff]

Soundcrafts feedback eliminators are worth the price of admission. If you mix yourself from stage they are great!

Could not agree more!!!

 

[walterw]

would any of you more experienced sound folks choose an analog board over a digital board these days ?

i don't think so, that ship has sailed.

aside from the fact that you'd need a six-foot tall rack full of EQs, gates and compressors to come close to what a $600 mixer the size of a breadbox does now, there's nothing finer as a bar/club soundguy then being able to walk around with an ipad and get the mix just right all over the room and letting the players adjust their own damn monitors with their phones instead of bothering you while you're trying to mix out front.

you can't get that at any price with an analog mixer.

 

[Paulabass]

^ Yup, club FOH people used to abandon the mixer, and go to the bar, or the washroom to do some blow. Now they take the mixer with them, and don't completely miss the bass solo.

 

[Paulabass]

The old way to connect a mixer- Sit on the floor behind the mixer, untangle the snake fan, and connect the snake ins (some of the numbers are obscured on the snake, so go find your flashlight). Figure out where all the snake outs connect, remembering the numbering of aux sends, and L/R. Connect the FOH rack, and 8 compressors, remembering in/out on all those insert cables, and L/R on all those mains cables. Stand up, get dizzy....fire up the system. If ONE of those connections is a bit off one side of the p.a. doesn't work. Start again. Perfect...everything works, but L/R are reversed...damn....just ignore it, and when the drummer plays a long fill nobody will notice it's backwards in the mix.
The new way to connect a mixer A) ipad...click 'connect'. B) full size digital mixer...connect data cable. DONE.

 

[walterw]

The new way to connect a mixer A) ipad...click 'connect'. B) full size digital mixer...connect data cable. DONE.

to be fair, now you're futzing around with router channels and IP addresses and firmware updates, but i'll take that over untangling and rolling up a beer-soaked 100' snake any day.

 

[SteveIII]

The presonus rackmount stuff works great. There is an app to allow each person control thier own monitor mix but not foh. I'm thrilled with my 24r. I'll second having backup controls though. We run a pc and a tablet and have the software on a phone as well. That being said we have never had a problem.

 

[pfschim]

to be fair, now you're futzing around with router channels and IP addresses and firmware updates, but i'll take that over untangling and rolling up a beer-soaked 100' snake any day.

I get the message about analog vs digital, but I am a bit confused about the snake comments .... either way you need the snake for all the connections/ins and outs right ?
or am I missing something ? (this is often the case where it comes to PA gear )

 

[SteveIII]

My board is rack mounted with the poweramps up front. Everyone is no further than a 20' xlr away from it.

 

[Sid s]

I get the message about analog vs digital, but I am a bit confused about the snake comments .... either way you need the snake for all the connections/ins and outs right ?
or am I missing something ? (this is often the case where it comes to PA gear )

I think they mean your signal is converted to digital in some box on stage, and then transported (with all the other signals) through a digital connection to the FOH mixer. So, one relatively thin digital cable instead of one thick analog snake.

 

[Paulabass]

Di

I get the message about analog vs digital, but I am a bit confused about the snake comments .... either way you need the snake for all the connections/ins and outs right ?
or am I missing something ? (this is often the case where it comes to PA gear )

Digital boards more often than not use digital snakes. One CAT 5 cable runs all the ins and outs. Digital snakes are still expensive, but I'm sure we'll see the prices coming down soon.

 

[walterw]

I get the message about analog vs digital, but I am a bit confused about the snake comments .... either way you need the snake for all the connections/ins and outs right ?
or am I missing something ?

+1 on the single little cat 5 cable serving as a snake when you have a setup with a stage box and a separate mixer control surface out in the room, but on smaller bar/club scales a soundguy can just leave his little rackmount mixer on stage behind the drummer or whatever and hang out in the room with an ipad, no snake needed at all.

 

[s0c9]

I get the message about analog vs digital, but I am a bit confused about the snake comments .... either way you need the snake for all the connections/ins and outs right ?
or am I missing something ? (this is often the case where it comes to PA gear )

For those of us who've run FOH in both the analog AND digital days, the "untangling and rolling up a beer-soaked 100' snake" comment was about the roll of cable that connected FOH and the stage.. depending on the number of channels supported, up to 2" thick with a "fan tail" (XLR connectors) on the FOH end, and a dirty great big "stage box" on the other.

@Paulabass's comment is correct.. many digital consoles can support 64 channels of audio and multiple returns (busses) over on CAT5E or CAT6 cable.. which is 1/4" thick.
It could still be beer-soaked

 

[pfschim]

ok, I understand what a snake is, but digital or analog, everything needs to be connected physically. Currently, with any PA that I am familiar with, everything (sub(s), mains, monitors, board .. ) are all connected with individual XLR cables. A snake can consolidate that mess to some degree. But, even if the connection is a much smaller digital cable (CAT5 or CAT6) they all have to be connected ..... right ?

the only non-physically connected device is the ipad/android tablet that acts as the control surface, and those run on a local wifi channel ..... right ?

again, I am not arguing analog vs digital .. I believe I would choose a digital board at this point.

 

[s0c9]

ok, I understand what a snake is, but digital or analog, everything needs to be connected physically. Currently, with any PA that I am familiar with, everything (sub(s), mains, monitors, board .. ) are all connected with individual XLR cables. A snake can consolidate that mess to some degree. But, even if the connection is a much smaller digital cable (CAT5 or CAT6) they all have to be connected ..... right ?

the only non-physically connected device is the ipad/android tablet that acts as the control surface, and those run on a local wifi channel ..... right ?

again, I am not arguing analog vs digital .. I believe I would choose a digital board at this point.

yes, and yes to both your questions.

 

[Paulabass]

@Paulabass's comment is correct.. many digital consoles can support 64 channels of audio and multiple returns (busses) over on CAT5E or CAT6 cable.. which is 1/4" thick.
It could still be beer-soaked

I either fly cat5 cables (you can hold them to a ceiling with duct tape, don't try that with analog), or a bury them.
I have one cable with a steel aircraft cable in it, and I can stretch it tight from the mixing tent to the roof of the stage.

 

[fokof]

Quality small /unexpensive mixers?
Yamaha TF1


I personaly avoid Behringer products in general like the plague in medieval times , for that reason : quality

 

[s0c9]

Quality small /unexpensive mixers?
Yamaha TF1


I personaly avoid Behringer products in general like the plague in medieval times , for that reason : quality

Nothing wrong with Behringer mixer quality.. the X32 series has become the de facto standard in many clubs/bars, touring bands and houses of worship. That stated, not all their gear has the same level of quality, but then, if you pay entry-level price, don't expect Ferrari performance

 

[pfschim]

Quality small /unexpensive mixers?
Yamaha TF1


I personaly avoid Behringer products in general like the plague in medieval times , for that reason : quality

well, I do appreciate your suggestion, I'm truly here to seek the input of folks with more live sound experience than I have. But, in a world of digital mixers with 16 inputs/pre's ... a retail price of $1,799 (sweetwater) seems kind of high to be considered inexpensive ... one could purchase 3 X18's for that price and have a few bucks left over for XLR cables (or perhaps CAT6). Even the seemingly well regarded QSC Touchmix 16 is about 1/2 that price.

Curious, is there something about the Yamaha product that is significantly better than the others ... QSC, Soundcraft, Behringer ?