Dingwall Owners Club

[gearhound22]

Somewhat related this is an interesting read especially the hide glue setting like glass.
Especially considering Slash's fav Les Pauls were copies
THE FIVE FACTORS WHICH CREATE THE ‘1959 BURST’ SOUND

 

[J Posega]

Absolutely none! Not aimed at anyone here but on other forums you will see these progressive guys boasting about their new build and how some tonewood no one has ever used before in a guitar has all sorts of cork sniffer properties and then the guy is just playing 01 000 1 1 0 00

Go watch any of Jacob Umansky’s videos after you take your head out of your butt. He’s playing 100% of the neck. Sorry it’s not a root-five blues line.

 

[DeltaPhoenix]

I think wood adds to the characteristics of the bass: attack, grind, mids (punch or scoop). What Sheldon said makes sense to me. I think some of those elements do even still matter post running through pedals/processing - if the bass has a fast attack - it interacts with an envelope filter in a different way than a "smooth" bass; it interacts with gain differently too.
I do also agree that it's possible to alter the original signal to the point that these characteristics are no longer heard or experienced.

 

[KPopOnBass]

If you combine two woods with similar damping, you can end up with a large hole in the response where notes seem to disappear [emphasis added]. In this case the bass can seem like it's fighting you

This makes more sense to me than a lot of other talk about woods - it's more about what it feels like to play, not so much about any audible difference after passing through strings, pickups, bridge, effects, amps, etc. It might explain why some instruments have that "certain ineffable something" that can't be reproduced when copied - even wood from the exact same tree has natural variations, you can never make it absorb at exactly the same wavelengths.

Speaking as a mid-tier bass player, maybe Dingwall's attention to these details is why they feel so good. If I'm fighting my bass, you might notice I'm struggling. If Anthony Jackson or Mohini Dey is fighting their bass, they're going to win.

 

[gearhound22]

Go watch any of Jacob Umansky’s videos after you take your head out of your butt. He’s playing 100% of the neck. Sorry it’s not a root-five blues line.

That might help if I was talking about bass players

"I believe the builders ...I don't believe some progressive start/stop nerd boasting about his Madagascan burl spalted roasted top has "defined mids" when he plays 1% of his guitar fretboard and is buried in distortion...

Absolutely none! Not aimed at anyone here but on other forums you will see these progressive guys boasting about their new build and how some tonewood no one has ever used before in a guitar has all sorts of cork sniffer properties and then the guy is just playing 01 000 1 1 0 00"

 

[shade_1313]

When it comes to tone woods, the question needs to include what it is about the wood that changes the tone. The answer to that is how it responds to vibrations. Which frequencies get damped, and which resonate.

Calling the woods "tone" woods I think limits the discussion. I admit I'm guilty of calling them that all the time but don't have a better descriptor that would be universally understood.

How the wood responds to vibration affects not just the tone but also how the bass responds to your touch. Some woods work well together consistently, where one's resonance fills the whole left by the other's damping. In my mind this results in a bass that has a full response and feels effortless to play. If you combine two woods with similar damping, you can end up with a large hole in the response where notes seem to disappear. In this case the bass can seem like it's fighting you and requires more effort to play than it should.

We've developed a rule of thumb where we suggest balancing woods with strong mids with woods with scooped mids. Ash/maple, alder/wenge, mahogany/wenge are all pretty predictably balanced which is why we suggest them. Ash/wenge can sound amazing but every now and then, things don't line up and it seems like the two woods are fighting each other.

Very useful info, as I’m busy trying to decide between 6-string Z and 6-string AB1 for my first custom D.

Out of curiosity, since the price list has it as an option for the Z, what’s Walnut pair well with, in your experience?

 

[Sheldon D.]

Interesting. When you are listing the wood combos, is the body wood/neck wood? And how does the fingerboard wood figure into the equation when it's not the same wood as the neck?

I was referring to body/neck combinations. Fretboards affect tone and response too however, now a structural consideration enters the equation. For the neck to be stable through temperature and humidity changes, the woods need to have relatively similar expansion and contraction rates along their length. I'm lazy and don't like to adjust truss-rods so would choose stability over slight differences in tone.

 

[AB Nate]

This makes more sense to me than a lot of other talk about woods - it's more about what it feels like to play, not so much about any audible difference after passing through strings, pickups, bridge, effects, amps, etc. It might explain why some instruments have that "certain ineffable something" that can't be reproduced when copied - even wood from the exact same tree has natural variations, you can never make it absorb at exactly the same wavelengths.

Speaking as a mid-tier bass player, maybe Dingwall's attention to these details is why they feel so good. If I'm fighting my bass, you might notice I'm struggling. If Anthony Jackson or Mohini Dey is fighting their bass, they're going to win.

Or they will sell the bass.

 

[gearhound22]

For the europeans nice D Roc 5 in white!
DINGWALL D-Roc Custom 5 String EB DWM kaufen | Jetzt bei session!

 

[AB Nate]

I was referring to body/neck combinations. Fretboards affect tone and response too however, now a structural consideration enters the equation. For the neck to be stable through temperature and humidity changes, the woods need to have relatively similar expansion and contraction rates along their length. I'm lazy and don't like to adjust truss-rods so would choose stability over slight differences in tone.

I love maple necks but for the stability I’ll take wenge any day now over maple.

if I could afford a Prima I’d definitely go wenge with Maple stringers or something of the like.

 

[AB Nate]

I'll just say this, then probably see myself out of the broader topic. I fell that bringing pure "cold" science into it would probably not have a positive influence - it may come across poorly and actually have folks dig in to their beliefs and feelings. Plus, how would you even measure it and apply it to "sound" and "feel" .

It’s probably not all that hard to measure with the right tech to be honest.

Yamaha does some pretty interesting stuff in regards to flexing wood for certain acoustics etc. lots of research, engineering and science into what they are doing to express their “tone woods”.

Lol. I said …. “tone wood”.


Yamaha Creates Vintage Tone with New Wood


Pretty cool stuff right here IMO

 

[MGBR]

When it comes to tone woods, the question needs to include what it is about the wood that changes the tone. The answer to that is how it responds to vibrations. Which frequencies get damped, and which resonate.

Calling the woods "tone" woods I think limits the discussion. I admit I'm guilty of calling them that all the time but don't have a better descriptor that would be universally understood.

How the wood responds to vibration affects not just the tone but also how the bass responds to your touch. Some woods work well together consistently, where one's resonance fills the whole left by the other's damping. In my mind this results in a bass that has a full response and feels effortless to play. If you combine two woods with similar damping, you can end up with a large hole in the response where notes seem to disappear. In this case the bass can seem like it's fighting you and requires more effort to play than it should.

We've developed a rule of thumb where we suggest balancing woods with strong mids with woods with scooped mids. Ash/maple, alder/wenge, mahogany/wenge are all pretty predictably balanced which is why we suggest them. Ash/wenge can sound amazing but every now and then, things don't line up and it seems like the two woods are fighting each other.

I have an AB1 with an alder body and maple neck, quite a common combination I should say. How would that compare to the other combinations mentioned? Plus a wenge fretboard by the way.

 

[akizh]

Finally got my Z2 this morning, I guess i'm gonna be too happy to sleep tonight.

 

[AB Nate]

Finally got my Z2 this morning, I guess i'm gonna be too happy to sleep tonight.
View attachment 4389285

Beauty!!! What pick ups and pre did you go with? Love the colour.

 

[akizh]

Beauty!!! What pick ups and pre did you go with? Love the colour.

Super Fatty II with Glocks, trying to nail the Sklar spec except the mid freq.
I'm still in office, can't wait to bring it back home and play all night long.

 

[AB Nate]

Super Fatty II with Glocks, trying to nail the Sklar spec except the mid freq.
I'm still in office, can't wait to bring it back home and play all night long.

I wonder how the frets play into the Sklar vibe?. I’ve never played the Mando frets.

 

[akizh]

I wonder how the frets play into the Sklar vibe?. I’ve never played the Mando frets.

Well actually I want a top on it so I choose Z and therefore it comes with Banjo size frets, only Sklar model has Mando frets. I think the frets and mid frequency are the only difference that Z are not able to get options as Sklar. Other than that I got the northern ash/alder body, maple neck, wenge board, and SFII pickups to make it as close as Sklar.
However, I don't think Banjo and Mando has big difference on fret size, maybe just a tiny bit that no one finds out without caliper.

 

[AB Nate]

Well actually I want a top on it so I choose Z and therefore it comes with Banjo size frets, only Sklar model has Mando frets. I think the frets and mid frequency are the only difference that Z are not able to get options as Sklar. Other than that I got the northern ash/alder body, maple neck, wenge board, and SFII pickups to make it as close as Sklar.
However, I don't think Banjo and Mando has big difference on fret size, maybe just a tiny bit that no one finds out without caliper.

I know, I was just thinking out loud.

BUT, it is a question I would love to explore. I do think it affects the tone and how it plays though. Smoother on both accounts?

I like the looks of yours much more then the Sklars.

 

[TTA]

Like blue? On reverb now!

 

[TTA]

On tone woods… as a non expert:

In racing cars/bikes/etc… there is a concept called “marginal gains”. It is a concept that many of the best teams use to get an advantage. Lets say we are cycling and helmet x makes you 5 seconds faster over the course of a 6 hour race. Is it worth it? How about shoes that give you three seconds? 4 seconds for an aero jersey? Now lets add in wheels that look faster and makes the rider feel/think that they are faster. Lets say that placebo effect makes the rider 10s faster.

Now add 15 of these marginal gains together and you are now 1-2minutes faster over a race.

but most of it still comes down to rider fitness… and then overall rider position (aerodynamics). Those are the big gains… the rest are “marginal gains”… but you can stack marginal gains to make them significant.

I think of tone woods as the same. They all matter… but fingers, pick, density of pick, pick angle, pick attack, where ypu play on the strings, string thickness, age, type, height all factor in. So do your pickups (wiring, winding, height, location), bass preamp/eq settings, cable, amp preamp, tubes, power amp, pedals, speaker cabs, speaker response curve, cab enclosure design, room shape, room materials, the hearing loss you may or may not have in specific frequencies. And i am sure i missed a lot more. Oh yeah… the wood in your bass.

they all matter a bit. If you line them all up you can boost a certain frequency/frequencies. But the biggest factor will likely be your eq… and the musician.