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Dissecting the Gospel Groove

#22
Mario Lewis said:
At about minute 19 or a few seconds before, you can get a feel of the environment that I live in, thrive in, love, and won't ever leave... the traditional call & response of the black church. Playing along with a preacher, backed by an organ.... man... ain't nothing like it.

Note the moment when the preahcer modulates up and the organist follows him.... as soon as possible, learn that there IS a key associated with the preachers voice, singing is nothing but elongated speech,and organists (good ones) pick up on that and learn to play around in the natural key of the preachers spoken word.... when you're doing those modulations, and the spirit is rising, live in that moment.... it's a beautiful thing!!
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Mario, this is soooo on point! Bruh, you got this nailed!!!

There are a TON of musician's I know that fail to match the Pastor's key when he or she has their "whoop" on. It may seem like such a small thing, but the results are so impressive to the congregation on a subconscious level.

Try this in your church this coming Sunday and check out the faces in the congregation.
 
#24
GSPLBASSDC said:
Mario, this is soooo on point! Bruh, you got this nailed!!!

There are a TON of musician's I know that fail to match the Pastor's key when he or she has their "whoop" on. It may seem like such a small thing, but the results are so impressive to the congregation on a subconscious level.

Try this in your church this coming Sunday and check out the faces in the congregation.
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The reason I ask is our pastor rarely gets into that mode, so we don't often go there as musicians. Our Keyboardist, on the other hand when he preaches he goes there... but that maybe equals 4 sundays a year.
 
#25
GSPLBASSDC said:
Mario, this is soooo on point! Bruh, you got this nailed!!!

There are a TON of musician's I know that fail to match the Pastor's key when he or she has their "whoop" on. It may seem like such a small thing, but the results are so impressive to the congregation on a subconscious level.

Try this in your church this coming Sunday and check out the faces in the congregation.
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+1

Its all about listening and truly feeling the Spirit when you're playing. Alot of the time the preacher may modulate keys without even realizing it...if the band is paying attention, you can catch it and move right along with the preacher. But if you aren't paying attention, everything will sound off!
 
#26
Torch7 said:
Playing Preacher Chords.
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I wouldn't call them preacher chords anymore than I 'd call them power chords or rock chords.... a C MAJ 7 is a CMAJ 7 and if it fits the moment then it fits... There are forums dedicated to this kind of thing... check out www.learngospelmusic.com for starters. www.blackgospel.com used to have a musician's forum for organists, but I don't go there anymore....

For the bass player, at least this one, my experience has been once that moment hits and the organist tells you to grab your bass, look at his feet see what he's playing on the foot pedals. You can take over that role... at the same time you're doing runs in that key or you're playing what sounds right, not forgetting that there are accents (this is call and response... and you're on the response end) after the preacher says something, there's a swell from the music pit... From that point it's as easy as watching for cues, or taking verbal instructions when he (or she) yells "up a half step!" and gives the head signal so that everyone moves together. Or he'll tell you "Go TO C!" and give you the signal.... it's that easy, AND you've got tons of room to explore the musicality of the moment, I can't tell you WHAT to play or what I play..... half the time, I don't know and wouldn't be able to tell you...it just comes to me at the moment...

Try as I might to describe it, it's something that you'll feel way better than you'll ever read about it.
 
#27
Mario Lewis said:
I wouldn't call them preacher chords anymore than I 'd call them power chords or rock chords.... a C MAJ 7 is a CMAJ 7 and if it fits the moment then it fits... There are forums dedicated to this kind of thing... check out www.learngospelmusic.com for starters. www.blackgospel.com used to have a musician's forum for organists, but I don't go there anymore....

For the bass player, at least this one, my experience has been once that moment hits and the organist tells you to grab your bass, look at his feet see what he's playing on the foot pedals. You can take over that role... at the same time you're doing runs in that key or you're playing what sounds right, not forgetting that there are accents (this is call and response... and you're on the response end) after the preacher says something, there's a swell from the music pit... From that point it's as easy as watching for cues, or taking verbal instructions when he (or she) yells "up a half step!" and gives the head signal so that everyone moves together. Or he'll tell you "Go TO C!" and give you the signal.... it's that easy, AND you've got tons of room to explore the musicality of the moment, I can't tell you WHAT to play or what I play..... half the time, I don't know and wouldn't be able to tell you...it just comes to me at the moment...

Try as I might to describe it, it's something that you'll feel way better than you'll ever read about it.
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Fair enough...
 
#28
Torch7 said:
The reason I ask is our pastor rarely gets into that mode, so we don't often go there as musicians. Our Keyboardist, on the other hand when he preaches he goes there... but that maybe equals 4 sundays a year.
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Seek ye first,



another church..... JUST JOKIN!!!:D :D


But seriously.... if you' ain't feeling it where you are, and this "experience" is what you seek.... ??? You might need to do an internal inventory....
 
#29
Mario Lewis said:
Seek ye first,



another church..... JUST JOKIN!!!:D :D


But seriously.... if you' ain't feeling it where you are, and this "experience" is what you seek.... ??? You might need to do an internal inventory....
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Oh know I didn't mean to come across as if I didn't like my church home. I love the worship experience, I was just trying to see if I could get some insight into what you were describing as the epitome...

On the real... I absolutely love my CHURCH.. and my Pastor has become just like a Father... there are truly not many men like him... sorry getting off topic.

We do more contemporary songs than traditional... Both our Keyboardist, are Pastor Kids, and can play about anything out there... but the bass player... is green hasn't been around music quite as long. (hey that's me)

It gets intimidating sometimes, like I was describing in the other gospel thread... they don't really speak theory talk... but I continue to hack...

This Sunday we played "Let it Rain" a simple enough groove for me to be able to let go and just enter in... and It was awesome, the song was played for an extended period, but it felt like a couple of minutes I was so into it...
 
#30
Mario Lewis said:
Seek ye first,



another church..... JUST JOKIN!!!:D :D


But seriously.... if you' ain't feeling it where you are, and this "experience" is what you seek.... ??? You might need to do an internal inventory....
Click to expand...

LOL... and I would add, if you ARE seeking this experience, why?

It's always been my strong conviction that you should be where you feel you are being fed by the Word....that is, God has you in a place where He can use you....not where you can exercise your bass chops or learn new techniques.

Maybe He has plans to bless the church's music ministry, but needs you to "Study to show thyself approved"......just remember to P.U.S.H. (pray until something happens)
 
#31
GSPLBASSDC said:
LOL... and I would add, if you ARE seeking this experience, why?

It's always been my strong conviction that you should be where you feel you are being fed by the Word....that is, God has you in a place where He can use you....not where you can exercise your bass chops or learn new techniques.

Maybe He has plans to bless the church's music ministry, but needs you to "Study to show thyself approved"......just remember to P.U.S.H. (pray until something happens)
Click to expand...

Again, let me reiterate... I am exactly where I am supposed to be. No doubt in my mind.... the music ministry is secondary, to my Preaching, and Teaching Ministry. I am also the Youth Pastor. I haven't found a more powerful teacher than my Pastor, and I have heard and seen lots of em.. He also has a heart for WORSHIP, and really emphasizes the entire Worship Experience, and doesn't mind that I hit sour notes while I am cutting my teeth so to speak. :D

I am just merely making conversation, and showing interest in what another brother, is saying is an awesome experience. Our Worship experience is not lacking... the anointing flows quite often, during Sunday services, and no-one is even able to utter a word, for the duration of the service at times... Also Every musician is a minster, with a standard... I think that has a more powerful affect on service than just good musicianship.

++++
I understand that sometimes communication on forums, come across another way... this is no way a lash... just explaining my perspective... Writing is not one of my strengths.
 
#33
Torch7 said:
Again, let me reiterate... I am exactly where I am supposed to be. No doubt in my mind.... the music ministry is secondary, to my Preaching, and Teaching Ministry. I am also the Youth Pastor. I haven't found a more powerful teacher than my Pastor, and I have heard and seen lots of em.. He also has a heart for WORSHIP, and really emphasizes the entire Worship Experience, and doesn't mind that I hit sour notes while I am cutting my teeth so to speak. :D

I am just merely making conversation, and showing interest in what another brother, is saying is an awesome experience. Our Worship experience is not lacking... the anointing flows quite often, during Sunday services, and no-one is even able to utter a word, for the duration of the service at times... Also Every musician is a minster, with a standard... I think that has a more powerful affect on service than just good musicianship.

++++
I understand that sometimes communication on forums, come across another way... this is no way a lash... just explaining my perspective... Writing is not one of my strengths.
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Well said....

That does sound like a great service, and I am not knocking you or anything like that...just lookin' for clarification, which you provided. Thanks, and don't let those "sour notes" bother ya.....I still hit one or two every so often :D
 
#34
GSPLBASSDC said:
Well said....

That does sound like a great service, and I am not knocking you or anything like that...just lookin' for clarification, which you provided. Thanks, and don't let those "sour notes" bother ya.....I still hit one or two every so often :D
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Gotcha br'er its all love... I didn't take it as such.:cool:

It is a great service, if your ever in Austin, Texas... you will have to come and be in the place.
 
#35
Mario Lewis said:
At about minute 19 or a few seconds before, you can get a feel of the environment that I live in, thrive in, love, and won't ever leave... the traditional call & response of the black church. Playing along with a preacher, backed by an organ.... man... ain't nothing like it.

Note the moment when the preahcer modulates up and the organist follows him.... as soon as possible, learn that there IS a key associated with the preachers voice, singing is nothing but elongated speech,and organists (good ones) pick up on that and learn to play around in the natural key of the preachers spoken word.... when you're doing those modulations, and the spirit is rising, live in that moment.... it's a beautiful thing!!
Click to expand...
Mario -

That's it. Right there. That's the whole essence of what made me want to play Bass in church. That's what I grew up on and it's like FOOD for me.

I'm hoping/praying that I'll get there one day. :hyper:
 
#38
Torch7 said:
Thanks for the input kenlacam...

Do you use knowledge of musical theory, where you play... mines seems like a mute point, when I am relating to the other musicians.
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as far as music theory is concerned, the basic 1-4-5 progession rules for most applications, as well as the chromatic runs for shouting, as the other bro put it. If you are learning new material, I would highly recommend listening to contemporary gospel records, like hezekiah walker, kirk franklin, and learn the basslines. I found that by playing a song over and over and learning the bass lines will strengthen your ear training as well.
 
#40
Torch7 said:
Can anyone give an estimate on how long it took their ear to develop to be able to identify intervals in songs, without slowing tracks down etc.

I am really dedicated to being a student of Music, but my time right now is at premium, so I am trying to get the most out of the time I have to train my ear, and learn theory.
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It comes with time, experience and exposure. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, you mean how long does it take to be able to guess and anticipate what the next note will be when you hear a song and you're trying to play along... whether in practice or on the spot.

My laymen's answer to that would be.... (get this one) you're thinking too hard... if you want to know what NOTE comes next, you need to concentrate more on theory. But over time, with more experience and a little exposure, you'll easily get over this hump.

Here's what I mean.... C MAJ chord or triad.... do you know what notes they are? How about a Bflat minor 7th... if there is such a thing... I don't know the notes (well I do, but let's pretend that I don't), BUT I know that if I know where C (the 1) is, finding E (the 3) and G (the 5) is a matter of what I'll call a "spatial relationship" on the neck amongst the frets. That's why I can play Precious Lord in ANY key by only knowing the root, because the movements from the 1 to the 4 in the beginning are the same no matter the key and we all know where the 4 is in relation to the 1, right?

Now, knowing that the first movement is actually from the 1 to the 4 is a matter of remembering that in a lot of gospel, especially traditional gospel, 80% of the songs follow the blues progression (1-4-5) to some degree....

But THAT tidbit comes from... time (time spent learning your instrument and this genre of music) experience (playing SOOOOOO many songs and finding out how common the 1-4-5 thing is and the many variations that don't really vary all that much) and exposure (exposure to the various ways that this composition technique is employed in gospel music)

In that video I linked to earlier, with Mr. Demetrius Tolefree and Mr. Booya Richardson.... those cats didn't get that good last week... they've been playing for YEARS!!!! Another good friend of mine listed in my influences, Anthony, that brother will leave a bass rig panting & gasping for air by the time he's finished wanking and slappin' and poppin and chordin'....and he works on it everyday!!! The level of professionalism and mastery that a lot of us are seeking only comes with time and effort. I wished that I was presented with the choice of the red pill or the blue pill.... but NO PILL will do for us the magic we seek unless we make that sacrifice of time and humility....

Hope that helps.
 

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