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DIY Lightweight Composite Cab Build

Wow, I don't want to detract attention from your cab Zac, but it measure pretty close to what I thought it would.......it's the plot of the 1212R that surprised me. As you say, it's a louder cab, but not according to the graph. I'm not picking on your testing procedures because they're as good as one could expect from a non-pro (I would have done pretty much the same). Interesting!
 
I hooked up the ZacLite to a GK1001 amp first, and then I set the amp flat. I set up the SPL meter 3 feet away from the center of the cab's baffle, and set the meter to C-weighting. From what I was able to research this is the flattest setting. I then played a 35Hz tone via laptop computer signal generator and adjusted the amps output until I got a reading of 75dB. From here I took SPL readings at 28 different frequencies. From 35Hz-13kHz. I used 1.25x to get my next frequency for testing (35, 43.75, 54.5875, etc.).

Well, the first thing is that you've got the GK preamp voicing mixed in with your response curve. This is fine if all you want to do is compare the ZacLite to the Schroeder.

If you want to take that factor out of the equation, you have to monitor the output voltage of the amplifier and make sure it's the same at all test frequencies.

I must say, I figured I'd see smoother looking graphs, but it is what it is. Them's the data. Could I be getting nodes from the boundary conditions? My backyard is about 12'x20' (city neighborhood) with 6' picket fence on three sides, and a house on the other. Then there's a concrete patio, a small block wall in one corner, etc. Not exactly an anechoic chamber.

Assuming you put the cabinets in the same spot, you would expect to see reflections showing up at the same frequencies for both cabs.

One thing you could possibly do to mitigate reflections is to put each cab on its back, pointing up into the sky, and suspend the microphone over it.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your method of 'averaging' test frequencies to get the SPL, because the frequencies aren't evenly spaced. I think you need to multiply each SPL reading by the frequency 'bin' width before summing, and then divide by the total measurement bandwidth to get an average that's not biased by the power-law spacing of frequencies.

Asad
 
Wow, I don't want to detract attention from your cab Zac, but it measure pretty close to what I thought it would.......it's the plot of the 1212R that surprised me. As you say, it's a louder cab, but not according to the graph. I'm not picking on your testing procedures because they're as good as one could expect from a non-pro (I would have done pretty much the same). Interesting!

At low volumes, the Zaclite 210 does seem to be as loud or louder than the 1212R. The data seem to indicate that as well. The 210 runs out of gas much earlier than the 1212R though. That's what I ment by the 1212R being louder.

I'm going to try to redo the testing this weekend if I get time. Hopefully I can get some more feedback on procedure and obtain beter data. I'd like to try to get a plot for the SWR 15" Son of Bertha I have too.
 
Also...by arbitrarily picking 75 dB as some 'reference', your absolute sensitivity number obviously won't be usable to compare to other cabinets except ones that you test in the same way. Perhaps Bill F. will chime in here, but I believe the standard way is to use a 2.83V (RMS?) signal at all test frequencies. Of course, because your cabinet is 4 ohms (right? 2 8-ohm drivers in parallel?), the 2.83V will actually be 2 watts instead of 1, but you can easily correct for that when plotting (subtract 3 dB) to get a "1W/1m" chart.

Asad
 
Well, the first thing is that you've got the GK preamp voicing mixed in with your response curve. This is fine if all you want to do is compare the ZacLite to the Schroeder.

If you want to take that factor out of the equation, you have to monitor the output voltage of the amplifier and make sure it's the same at all test frequencies.

What I'm really trying to accomplish with this testing is to get an idea of what the frequency response of each cab is, and compare that to what I hear and to what my design calculations say it should have been. I'm not trying to compare my cab(s) to any published specs.

I hear you about the amps voicing. I would like to take this out of the equation if possible. Do you know how to best monitor the output voltage? I have a nice Fluke multimeter that I could use. Is it as simple at taking an AC voltage reading across the speaker terminals and adjusting the amps level until you get the specified voltage? I imagine that I'd have to build some sort of contraption so that I could tap the line into the cab.


Assuming you put the cabinets in the same spot, you would expect to see reflections showing up at the same frequencies for both cabs.

I do see some similar peaks between the cabs which is what makes me think I'm seeing these reflections. I was pretty close to my house when I took the measurements, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what I'm seeing. I didn't give too much thought about the whole set up at the time.

One thing you could possibly do to mitigate reflections is to put each cab on its back, pointing up into the sky, and suspend the microphone over it.

This is a great idea! I'll try retesting with this method and I'll try to get out into the middle of my small yard too.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your method of 'averaging' test frequencies to get the SPL, because the frequencies aren't evenly spaced. I think you need to multiply each SPL reading by the frequency 'bin' width before summing, and then divide by the total measurement bandwidth to get an average that's not biased by the power-law spacing of frequencies.

I just made that method up. I figured it would be my best bet at getting a baseline SPL to then extract F3 and F10. I know what you mean when you say "bin". It is the octave spacing on a Real Time Analyzer (RTA). Typically you see 1/3octave, 1/24th octave, etc. I don't think I have bins in my case since I'm not using a RTA. Do I? Isn't an SPL meter different from a RTA in that regard? To figure out what frequency to take my readings at I started at a low base frequency (30HZ, I think?) , then multiplied by 1.25 to the next. So they would be 30, 37.5, 46.875, 58.594, etc. Would that be an even division of an octave since I'm multiplying it out? I then set the tone generator at each frequency, one at a time, and took an SPL reading. I thought an RTA used filters to create a bin, and that even though the bin has a center frequency the wider the bin the more energy it contains. Therefore a 1/3 octave bin would measure higher than a 1/24 octave bin.
 
Also...by arbitrarily picking 75 dB as some 'reference', your absolute sensitivity number obviously won't be usable to compare to other cabinets except ones that you test in the same way. Perhaps Bill F. will chime in here, but I believe the standard way is to use a 2.83V (RMS?) signal at all test frequencies. Of course, because your cabinet is 4 ohms (right? 2 8-ohm drivers in parallel?), the 2.83V will actually be 2 watts instead of 1, but you can easily correct for that when plotting (subtract 3 dB) to get a "1W/1m" chart.

Asad

I do realize that my numbers won't be comparable to the published absolute SPL numbers for other cabs. I wasn't sure how to do the whole 1W/1m 2.83V thing, so I just picked 75dB at the low end to put all the data into the useful range of my SPL meter. Even if I could get down the procedure for testing at 1W/1m, it still might not be comparable. From what I've read, cab manufacturers don't use any standard testing procedures.

Right now the relationship between perceived frequency response (read: tone) and actual is important, and the differences between predicted theoretical performance and actual is important. I want to be a better cab designer. This is the key info I need in order to properly design a cab for a specific purpose. Eventually I'd like to get frequency response data for some of the classic tones out there. For example: Ampeg SVT810, Ampeg B-15, SWR Goliath III, etc. Maybe even look at high end cabs like Bergantino, EA, etc. I've got an SWR 15" that I plan on testing and of course the 1212R and ZacLite 210. With a good understanding of what certain tone profiles look like on a frequency response graph and the knowledge of how to turn a theoretical design into a cab that will achieve a similar profile I should be able to design a cab for someone tailored to their specific tonal preferences. Maybe I'm being nieve and it is much harder than that, but it is a start and I'm learning.
 
Just stumbled across this company.

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Looks like they're making resin cabs with neo drivers...

Wow. Nice looking cabs, Thanks for the link. I've never heard of these guys. I really like how they've got corner casters, rails, and a handle on their 410. I built those features into my Schroeder 1212R. Makes it much easier to transport.

They claim to be using "a proprietary resin composite system to reinforce the cabinet shell from the inside, forming a uniform interior structure that is self-damping, unaffected by temperature or humidity, and most of all weighs less than 5% of traditional plywood", but I believe that the cabs are still plywood cabs. They just have a layer or two of epoxy and fiberglass on the inside to make them stiffer. This would allow them to use slightly thinner plywood to save a few pounds, but is a far cry from sandwich construction and doesn't really have any of its advantages. This is just an assumption though. I could be wrong.

For instance the lighter of their two 410s is listed to weigh 59lbs (BTW, 2 pounds HEAVIER than an Epifani UL2-410). Assuming they are using Eminence Deltalite II 2510 drivers, a similar cab built with sandwich construction would reduce the total weight down to just 35lbs. That's a 41% weight reduction.

One thing that is kind of funny about their cabs is the option pricing. You have to extra for things like Neo drivers. It is also funny that they change drivers without changing the dimensions of the cabs or its specs. I don't know of any drivers that have identical TS when switching from neo to non-neo. Seems a bit less than optimal.

Very good looking cabs though. Thanks again.
 
For instance the lighter of their two 410s is listed to weigh 59lbs (BTW, 2 pounds HEAVIER than an Epifani UL2-410). Assuming they are using Eminence Deltalite II 2510 drivers, a similar cab built with sandwich construction would reduce the total weight down to just 35lbs. That's a 41% weight reduction.
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At the end of the day, if you're going to use something other than wood, there has got to be a good reason to deviate. Weight is a very good reason, and probably the only one I'd seriously consider.
 
Wow. I just joined TB and this is one of the first threads I stumbled on.

At one point (when you posted pics where the cab is all white) I actually muttered, "Holy crap. It's beautiful!"

Fantastic work. I like the name you decided on too... Zaclite. Perfect.
 
Here's a look at Asad's idea.

zaclitelogoplate10.gif


IMG_1076zaclite.gif


I dig it!


Absolutely amasing Cab!

BTW I like this Logo. Adds some color to it.


Have you cranked it yet?
 
Absolutely amasing Cab!

BTW I like this Logo. Adds some color to it.


Have you cranked it yet?

Thanks RP.

I have cranked it many times. I've been using the cab for smaller gigs and rehearsals. It gets very loud and is efficient, but eventually it starts to reach its excursion limits if you try to go too loud. It is only a 210 after all (Eminence 2510).

I amazes me just how much these drivers seem to move. You can really see it when these things get pumping. At first I was a little scared. I thought they were going to jump right out of the cab, but now that I've been pushing them for some time without failure I'm more comfortable.

I had a great time building this cab, but it was just a proof of concept. Now that I've proved sandwich construction can work I'm look for way to make it more manufacturable. I've got some ideas that I've been testing and things look promising. Still a few more hurdles though. I hope to start another build this fall/winter.
 
I am very impressed with this concept. I think you have hit on something in a major way. Lighter cabs is a big concern these days.

The lightweight power amp has been done but cabs that meet that kind of mark have not.

I will be looking forward to your next build and may be interested in getting something like this at some point. This could really take Bass Playing into the next generation.

Could a larger high wattage cab be doable? Say a vented or ported 4x10?

Something like a 1,000 watt 4x10 that is extremely lightweight would be a God Send and I think would be very very popular.
 
I am very impressed with this concept. I think you have hit on something in a major way. Lighter cabs is a big concern these days.

The lightweight power amp has been done but cabs that meet that kind of mark have not.

That was a good part of my reasoning when I thought about building this cab. Amps went from 40lbs to 4lbs. Neo drivers lightened cabs a little, but we're still using heavy plywood. Now, I just need a way to reduce cost. That's the real challenge.

I will be looking forward to your next build and may be interested in getting something like this at some point. This could really take Bass Playing into the next generation.

Could a larger high wattage cab be doable? Say a vented or ported 4x10?

Something like a 1,000 watt 4x10 that is extremely lightweight would be a God Send and I think would be very very popular.

Larger cabs are very doable and would actually take better advantage of this technology.