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Double Bass DIY Pickup Experiment

Adagio

Adagio

Guest
Jul 21, 2011
190
4
Quebec City
#1
Yesterday, I played my DB for the first time with my band. I was amplified through an SM58 and got really frustrated with the results. Lot of feedback issues and almost no sound was coming out of the PA. I then decided to buy a pickup, but I'm not quite decided which one to choose yet... You know, there are so many options!

Meanwhile, I remembered having a piezo transducer that I wanted to install on my acoustic bass guitar (which I never did). Well, that sounded like a perfect do-it-yourself experiment to me!

So after 10 minutes of haaaard work and 35$ worth of material, I had my pickup installed and working. This is meant to be a guitar soundboard transducer but I squeezed it in the bridge wing, just like an Underwood or a Rev Solo. The piezo is wired to a guitar endpin jack that I inserted in the tailpiece (in the A string slot). And that's it!

It actually sounds a lot better than what I expected. It's similar to my acoustic sound, across the entire range of the bass. I tried it at a low volume but I'm definitely looking forward putting it to the test with my band to see if I get any feedback issues.

I don't wanna imply that it is a long term solution; I'm not really sure what to expect in a live band situation... But hey, after only 10 min and 35$, I might just be able to play with a drummer! :)
 

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#4
No discussion of inexpensive pickups is complete without mentioning these two:

$50: sixrounds.com - Home - their basic model is what's on my Eberle.

$15: Pulse KD-1 Acoustic Kick Drum Trigger @ Musician's Friend.

Both go into the bridge wing on the bass side. The $50 comes with a couple of small pieces of cork that you can trim as needed to help get you a good fit. For the $15 version, I took the cardboard part of the packaging it came in and cut out several little squares, adding enough of them to get a snug fit.

-S-
 
#5
Hi.

Adagio said:
And that worked well for you Sam? Did you install the element inside or outside the bass?
Click to expand...

Pretty good, actually.

I routed (milled in a Bridgeport mill actually :)) a groove to the bridge, on the most narrow part, and inserted the piezo strip there. Took some shimming to get the pressure right, but it has served me well enough for now.

The electronics are inserted to the string overhang, and the jack zip-tied onto the solid steel (:eek:) "tail-gut".

Unfortunately I'm haven strange problems with Photobucket, but I can try to take some pics if You're interested.

I'm planning to turn some adjusters that will include round disks in the unforeseeable future, but since the band I'm in now doesn't have much use for a DB, I haven't done it yet.

Regards
Sam
 
#7
Hey Sam, that's great the pickup worked for you. I am indeed quite intrigued to see some pics, if you can post some.

Steve, I am really curious about the drum pickup, how does it sounds on a bass? 15$ seems like the lowest cost I've ever seen!

I tested my pickup more extensively today at higher volume. Feedback resistance was not too bad but it sounded somewhat too percusive (too much finger noise) so I added some putty and tried a couple of different contact locations. The best place is on the spruce top, between the bridge and the tailpiece (right in the middle). The tone is really good there, well balanced, but I get feedback more quickly. I thought of covering the pick-up and putting it inside the bass, but it just get worst. I fear it won't be loud enough to play with the band; I'll learn that in two days!
 
#8
The $15 pickup was installed by me in a student bass but it's not my student, just the young man who plays bass at my wife's school, so all I did was install, quick test, and leave. I should get to hear it in the jazz band concert tomorrow but that won't be a chance to listen and evaluate in any depth, either. All I can report is that the band director can now hear the bass and he's very happy with how it's turned out so far.

-S -
 
#9
Is the trigger encased in plastic? I have a pintech one I used for a fingerboard transducer, and it has an almost dome shaped plastic housing.
Make sure you keep an eye on that jack, you might get some funky buzzing coming from it. If that ever happens, you can get some cheap vinyl tubing and mount it like an underwood.
 
#10
One side of the piezo element is copper, the other side is "foam". It is a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], really easy to get as a pack (with the switchjack) at StewMac. I might try to enclose it in a tiny spruce cube, just to see the difference.

The jack was buzzing a little at first, then I tightened the screws some more and everything is fine now. Still looking forward testing the feedback resistance...
 
#11
Hi.

Adagio said:
Hey Sam, that's great the pickup worked for you. I am indeed quite intrigued to see some pics, if you can post some.
Click to expand...

Got the browser problem solved, but there wasn't as good pics of the PU there as I remembered. I'll snap and post some over the weekend.

Adagio said:
I fear it won't be loud enough to play with the band; I'll learn that in two days!
Click to expand...

It'll feed back, that's something You can be pretty sure of.

There's quite a bit of feedback prevention methods on the Rockabilly subforum on TB, as is on every rockabilly site as well. Obviously ;).

The most effective 1 second cure I found with my ply is to gently squeeze a towel between the top and the tailpiece. Now, as we all know, the universe is not a safe place to hitch-hike in without a towel, so we all probably have one in our gig bags. You might as well give it a try.

There's also more (semi-) permanent ways of feedback prevention/management, blocking the F-holes, using parametric EQ's, delaying the monitors, etc.

The proneness to feedback is what usually sets these DIY PU's of ours apart from the "hundreds-of-dollars" range PU's.

Regards
Sam
 
#12
So after about a year of experimentation with different PU, I'm back at messing around with the Schatten EP01. The one in my original post eventually failed due to repeated installations and removals, so I ordered a batch of 'em. I carved a cedar base and matched the finish with the top of my bass and then glued the piezo on it. This way it will protect the fragile spot and hopefully prevent another failure. The whole thing is stuck to the to with removable blue putty. I also made one for my drummer's cajon, and one for a uke. Seems to work fine so far.

Sound wise, I still think the PU is quite good for the price. Very woody, but somewhat more mid-rangy than other piezos I've tried. I'd say the sound is somewhere between the signature sounds of the Realist and the Erhlund. I mix it with a full circle through a Headway EDB1 for best results. Though it sounds good, I had to remove it because of some noise when moving the wire. Perhaps I should shorten the wire or check the solders, but there something wrong in this area. Meanwhile, I put my Ehrlund back on the bass because I had important gigs and I didn't want to mess around with that thing. I've come to realize I get pretty much the same sound once blended with the FC and EQed.

I still think the Ehrlund is better quality and more reliable, but I just thought some of you might want to know about that cheap alternative for soundboard piezos.
 

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#13
Not quite DIY, but I'm just entering the world of DB amplification too and I thought I'd try this just to get through rehearsals:

Link Removed

It looks like what I think of when I hear DIY piezo pickup.

Turns out it actually sounds wonderful (was actually cheaper than listed on the website) and I can't really fault it, apart from it being a tad too thin to sit snug in my wing-slot and that it needs shimming. But otherwise it sounds fantastic and I'm really happy with it.

On another note, the second surprise I got at the first rehearsal with this setup was how good everything sounded through my little Behringer BX1200. The 'shape' function works wonders. Maybe having a decent bass and technique to start with helps, but I am more than content to use this pickup and amp for the time being.

DIY/homemade off eBay FTW!
 
#15
I used a 27mm piezo drum trigger ($7 for 5 of them on ebay) and soldered that to a $3 jack from Fry's with some shielded cable I had laying around and it sounds great! Shoved it under the bass-side bridge wing with bare brass on the wing and a folded piece of paper to back it up. Oh, and it has the same output level as my '78 P-bass with passive Bartolini's. Now I'm just wondering how to wire an adjustable "clicky"... any ideas??
 
#16
I amplified my upright years ago, putting a piezo disc on the back of the bass, right where the soundpost is. No string noise, pure tone, no click.

I got the idea after reading an article on Emerson, Lake and Palmer, when they toured with the London Philharmonic orchestra. Mics wouldn't yield the volume and separation so they put Barcus Berry pickups (the old rectangular ones) on the backs of the stringed instruments, right where the soundpost meets the back.

When doing this, there will be a LOT of low end, but a device like an Fdeck would be perfect. I used to make a simple preamp and include a low filter that worked fine.
 
#17
Steve Dallman said:
I amplified my upright years ago, putting a piezo disc on the back of the bass, right where the soundpost is. No string noise, pure tone, no click.

I got the idea after reading an article on Emerson, Lake and Palmer, when they toured with the London Philharmonic orchestra. Mics wouldn't yield the volume and separation so they put Barcus Berry pickups (the old rectangular ones) on the backs of the stringed instruments, right where the soundpost meets the back.

When doing this, there will be a LOT of low end, but a device like an Fdeck would be perfect. I used to make a simple preamp and include a low filter that worked fine.
Click to expand...

Steve: Interesting. Can you tell us more about the "piezo disc"? Is it from a piezo pickup? If not, where did you get it? How do you keep it attached to the back of the bass?
Thanks.
 
#19
Piezo disks are available from a variety of parts suppliers. There are hundreds of different types. Virtually every successful piezo-disk-based pickup uses materials to mechanically filter the response of the piezo. Without such (often proprietary) tuning, the response would be judged by most experienced players to be, well, awful. There's just no shortcut. :)
 
#20
The Peterman bender is an interesting example, which sticks on (with green putty). The one I used was mounted in a relatively heavy cast metal casing. The putty goes in the middle of the disk, causing the piezo to bend. The maker explains the principle on his web site.

I had mine mounted between the bass bar and the f hole, which gave lots of signal with no noticeable quack, but not enough clarity for my liking. I never tried it on the back. Mounting the connector/socket would be difficult I imagine.

Steve
 

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