Do I really need to know my modes?

[kevindahl]

No you dont need to know any theory, scales, chord tones etc... But and it's a big but can you hear music and play it back quickly? Are you able to play any musical idea in your head easily? Can your hear chords and play them back? If yes to all these you are in the small percentage in the gifted category. If it is a no then you are like the rest of us and have to work your butt off to become proficient on the bass.

What do you practice or warm up with? Practicing modes, apreggios, chord tones, intervals etc will improve your ear(who doesnt need this?) and make your mind and fingers work together.

 

[Sparkdog]

YES. I am kind of surprised at all the folks here saying you don't need that knowledge. Put another way, what is the advantage in NOT knowing the modes and how to apply them?

Another way to think of it is, do you want to be just a bass player, or a musician? To me "musician" means you understand the craft and the language well enough to exchange ideas and communicate effectively with other musicians. That's a worthy goal.

And you won't have to invest hundreds of hours to understand modes. Read up on the concept, spend a few hours practicing so you have them in your ears and under your fingers, and you have a whole new chapter in your book to call upon if and when it's needed.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[knight of ni]

If you ask the question then you know the answer.

 

[bassfuser]

For me, the Dorian mode and Mixolydian mode are both very useful. The others, not so much. I concentrate more on chord tones and approach notes, whether chromatic or diatonic. But these two modes work great while walking over a static minor chord (Dorian) or dominant chord (Mixolydian) over many measures. Meandering around with the Major scale just doesn't sound good if you don't know how it relates to the chord tones. Targeting the chord tones using the associated mode puts more meaning into what is being played.

 

[dkelley]

There is more than one major scale. Which one are you referring to and which mode of which scale is it?

In what universe is there more than one Major scale?

A major scale in C (to use the simplest example) on a piano is white keys C to C. You can start it on any note, the intervals are the same as the intervals of the white keys on a piano.
Major 2nd, Major 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, Major 6th, Major 7th, Perfect octave. Or you could describe it as intervals between each note as whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half (where whole is 2 semitones or frets, half is one semitone or fret).

 

[dkelley]

Any Major scale is the Ionian mode.

Any Natural Minor scale is the Aeolian mode. (Note: a Natural Minor scale has a minor 3rd, minor 6th and minor 7th when compared to a Major scale).

Those are ones we use all the time in music, even if we don't know we're playing in modes. Just as the simplest introduction to modes.

 

[cnltb]

In what universe is there more than one Major scale?

A major scale in C (to use the simplest example) on a piano is white keys C to C. You can start it on any note, the intervals are the same as the intervals of the white keys on a piano.
Major 2nd, Major 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, Major 6th, Major 7th, Perfect octave.

Your question is a little revealing.
Quick answer; Here is two more: those scales that start on the iv and the v are both major scales also ( Lydian(mode) and Mixolydian(mode) respectively, the one that starts on C is also referred to as Ionian(mode))).
Even quicker answer: In this one.

 

[Max Bogosity]

The better question might be not “do I need to learn modes” but rather “what do I need to learn to achieve my goals”. It won’t hurt you to learn the modes, but there’s always an opportunity cost - is your time better spent on modes or on some other area?

 

[dkelley]

Your question is a little revealing.
Quick answer; Here is two more: those scales that start on the iv and the v are both major scales also ( Lydian and Mixolydian respectively, the one that starts on C is also referred to as Ionian)).
Even quicker answer: In this one.

???

Lydian and Mixolydian modes are not Major scales.

Major scale has a concrete definition which I have described a few ways now for complete clarity.

Lydian mode has an Augmented 4th which therefore makes it not a Major scale. You appear to be defining Major scale as anything that has a Major 3rd.

A Major 3rd makes the tonality major, but it is not a Major scale.

You might know modes, but you don't know the fundamentals of music theory.

A "Major" scale is not anything with a major 3rd in it. A Major chord could be, but a Major scale is a very specific thing, and it is how one learns the Ionian mode, the ONLY mode which is the same as the Major scale.

Here's a basic information page for everyone:

Modes of the Major Scale Tutorial | PianoGroove.com

 

[cnltb]

The better question might be not “do I need to learn modes” but rather “what do I need to learn to achieve my goals”. It won’t hurt you to learn the modes, but there’s always an opportunity cost - is your time better spent on modes or on some other area?

The first question might be: 'What are my goals?'. No?

 

[cnltb]

???

Lydian and Mixolydian modes are not Major scales.

Major scale has a concrete definition which I have described a few ways now for complete clarity.

Lydian mode has an Augmented 4th which therefore makes it not a Major scale. You appear to be defining Major scale as anything that has a Major 3rd.

A Major 3rd makes the tonality major, but it is not a Major scale.

You might know modes, but you don't know music theory.

ok...

 

[Mushroo]

Your question is a little revealing.
Quick answer; Here is two more: those scales that start on the iv and the v are both major scales also ( Lydian(mode) and Mixolydian(mode) respectively, the one that starts on C is also referred to as Ionian(mode))).
Even quicker answer: In this one.

I dig your style.

 

[bobdabilder]

Knowing and using them can make you a better musician and bassist. It can't hurt at all. Knowledge is power.

Seems it’s only good for mainly soloing. And fills I guess. Your thoughts? And jazz I guess. I play for my church and doesn’t seem like I need it much. But I guess good to know anyway as a bassist. That’s why I wonder what your thoughts are. Thanks

 

[bobdabilder]

Lol

Bassists don't need to retain any theory. The guitarist in your church band can tell you everything you need to know about music. If there's no guitarist, ask the singer. You can probably get by on tab after that.

 

[lomo]

You don't "need" anything other than roots, 5ths and octaves. However, all knowledge is useful, and everything you know will somehow enhance your musicianship.

 

[groooooove]

i doubt paul mccartney knows them


jaco pastorius definitely knew them.

the math works out if you think about it.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I don't see how learning something new on an instrument a bad thing.

Start with the 7 modes of the major scale. Plenty of work with just that.

Then arpeggios of modes, then played in 3rds then 6ths...etc....tons of exercises.

Happy practicing.

 

[knight of ni]

ok...

@dkelley is right. You are confusing scales and modes. Modes are generated from a given scale. A mode does not yield a scale. Modes are used for example in chord sequences like ii-V-I within the frame of scale.
You can take the interval sequence of a mode and say it's a scale but it doesn't make it 'usable', 'interesting' or have any harmonic meaning (eg being able to draw harmonious chord sequences from such a scale). Hence a mode is not a scale, though both are intervals sequences.

 

[FlashBazbo]

Personally, I find the main usefulness of "modes," for me, is to quickly communicate musical ideas to tone-deaf guitarists who can't hear the musical idea. For example if the guitarist is incorrectly playing B naturals, and can't hear how bad his note choice sounds against the B flat in the C7 chord, I can yell out "C Mixolydian!" and hopefully he'll get the hint. When playing with non-tone-deaf musicians, the topic of "modes" seldom comes up, in the musical circles I hang with.

Your guitarists are of a much higher caliber than mine. With mine, if I yelled out "C Mixolydian" I would expect the guitarist to freeze and take on an expression of utter bafflement.

 

[40Hz]

I’d make it a point to learn and understand them for what they are and how they could be be applied to the music you’re doing. But I personally never found modes particularly useful or worth doing a deep dive on. I’ve found learning modern “tonal music” theory was more far useful (to me) than the modal/diatonic approach to music. YMMV.