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Do you need a cab sim?

This is a question I am going through right now. I am ampless at church and am putting together a FOH sound that I can use with IEMs. Currently using a Fender Ultra with the active preamp on, to a Sansamp with a slight mid boost, to a Khan VTDI. Almost there but I am thinking of adding a Nux Mini Studio after the Sansamp for just a little more Cab. My setup sounds great to my Rumble 500 but the IEMs are still missing a little something. I know the Sansamp has a cab sim baked in but I think it may need a little more.
 
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This is a question I am going through right now. I am ampless at church and am putting together a FOH sound that I can use with IEMs. Currently using a Fender Ultra with the active preamp on, to a Sansamp with a slight mid boost, to a Khan VTDI. Almost there but I am thinking of adding a Nux Mini Studio after the Sansamp for just a little more Cab. My setup sounds great to my Rumble 500 but the IEMs are still missing a little something. I know the Sansamp has a cab sim baked in but I think it may need a little more.
That Khan VTDI seems pretty sweet!

You could add a LPF such as the one by Broughton or use a dedicated cab sim such as the Mini studio or torpedo Cab M
I also did a demo of the Mini Studio:
 
I personally prefer to use a relatively simple faux, EQ based, cab sim, predominantly just being a HPF +LPF with some additionally added fairly subtle parametric EQ'ing for fine adjustments, over a much more detailed, but therefor also intrusive, IR based one.

I use this setup to achieve a more consistent tone between weather I practice at home through a "headphones amp + high quality studio headphones" setup, rehearse with my bass/vocals and drums/vocals duo through a "poweramp + full range PA speaker with proper low end reproduction", or play gigs DI'ed through the given venue's PA, and as said I much prefer it to how my bass sounds through a real bass cab or an IR based cab sim, and it gives me more control and a fuller range tone, closer to how my bass actually really sounds.
 
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That Khan VTDI seems pretty sweet!

You could add a LPF such as the one by Broughton or use a dedicated cab sim such as the Mini studio or torpedo Cab M
I also did a demo of the Mini Studio:

I love your videos and it was this one that let me on to the Mini Studio. I have looked at the Cab M as well but I don’t think I want to go down the rabbit hole of buying additional cab irs. It seems to only come with a couple for bass and their store packages are nearly as much as the pedal itself. I have thought about maybe going with a Tech 21 Q Strip for the HPF LPF and eq all in one. I know it’s not adjustable but they seem well placed from the reviews.
 
... closer to how my bass actually really sounds.
This is what I am trying to achieve. I want the same tone ampless at church on a silent stage to FOH with volunteer sound men that I get at home through my amp. I have been looking at cab sim pedal reviews but am also considering the Tech 21 Q Strip for just what it seems you are describing. What gear are you using to get yours?
 
Interesting video for sure! In my case, I've been trying different cab sim in my HX and I download and purchase some IRs. And I always prefer the tone of a preamp without the cab sim. Maybe I am used to the sound of just the preamp through a DI. All my life I've been getting the sound from the DI of my amp in every single show I played except one. And now with the HX I've been recording and I like the sound of just the preamp. Or the cab in parallel mode and mix both lines.
 
This is what I am trying to achieve. I want the same tone ampless at church on a silent stage to FOH with volunteer sound men that I get at home through my amp. I have been looking at cab sim pedal reviews but am also considering the Tech 21 Q Strip for just what it seems you are describing. What gear are you using to get yours?

The way I have set it up it's actually fairly complicated, partially being due to me as much as possible insisting on making use of gear I already had at my disposal, but doesn't necessarily have to be if you can get the adjustment you need from a single unit that does it all.


Here comes the full explanation of my setup though:

In my setup the line between what is EQ based cab sim and what is just basic EQ'ing of my tone is somewhat blurred beside the basic HPF/LPF, and as I don't own an actual LPF that is constructed from using a 2 band parametric EQ, the 2 bands respectively doing a -18dB cut at 10kHz, with a Q vallue (determining the width and angle of the curve around the center frequency affected) of 1, and a -20dB cut at 20kHz, with a Q value of 0.5, when plotted in in my parametric EQ VST in my DAW together with my other additional EQ settings that gives something similar to what a LPF set at about 2.8kHz (-3dB) with an about -10dB/Oct slope would do, my HPF being the one fixed at 40Hz (-3dB) build in to my Art Tube MP Project Series tube preamp, which I assume works by the standard -12dB/Oct slope.


As I already has my full signal chain typed down, including a more or less thorough description of how I have the individual units dialed in and their function, I will just copy paste it for you, and then you'll have to derive the units directly affecting the EQ of my tone yourself (they will be among the always on units though, marked with red/bold/underlined text).

Here we go, my full signal chain:

(*pedals listed in [ red/bold/underline text ] are "always on" effects*)


4 string 28,6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, and strung with gauge .95 - .75 - .55 - .40 D'Addario XL nickle roundwound steel core strings, tuned in F# standard tuning, 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning) ->>

TC Electronic SpectraComp (always on compressor) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (always on digital polyphonic octaver, used as an 1 octave up effect mixed with clean bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (always on, parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (always on low gain overdrive, really primarily used to enhance harmonic content, [Tone] set at about 10:30 o'clock, [Voice] set to boost a wide curve around a 800Hz center frequency about +3B pre gain stage, always mixed with the Artec Graphic EQ in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Joyo Orange Juice (medium gain clanky grinding overdrive, always used with the other Orange Juice behind it stacked into it, and always mixed with the Behringer BEQ700 in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Behringer BEQ700 Bass Graphic Equalizer (always on 7 band graphic equalizer [120Hz (low Q)= ~+2dB ; 400Hz (high Q)=~+2dB ; 800Hz (high Q)=~2dB], always blended with the Orange Juice overdrive in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 55/45 ratio) }=>> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (Boss FZ-2/Univox Super Fuzz clone, octave fuzz, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Joyo Orange Juice (lower medium gain grindy kind of overdrive, always used stacked into the Metal Zone in front of it, and always mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (distortion, used with a relatively low gain setting, and always used with the Orange Juice behind it stacked into it, and always used mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser (EHX Small Stone clone, used in the high feedback and deep sweep mode, always used boosted by the Hotone Trem in front of it, and almost always used mixed with flanger in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Hotone Trem (Tremolo with rate and depth at 0, always used to boost either the Behringer phaser placed behind it and make it a bit brighter, since it's a few dB above unity gain when engaged and got a tone control) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, in original classic RAT [Vintage] mode, quite raunchy, fuzz-esque, high gain distortion, always used mixed with the Metal Zone distortion in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Monarch MFL-22 (flanger, most often used mixed with phaser in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Zoom G1Xon (Used for an always on 2 band parametric equalizer [Freq=63Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=200 Q=2 Boost=+1dB], and additionally used for 3 patches (all including the EQ at the end of the chain), which respectively are as follows: Tremolo+VintageCE (Boss CE-1 emulation), chorus patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, prominent reverb patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, extremely thick lush reverb patch, used as a reverb pad effect with volume swells) [/I]->> NUX Tape Core Deluxe (Roland Space Echo tape delay emulation) ->> Zoom MS-70CDR (always on 2 band parametric EQ [Freq=400Hz Q=2 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=1kHz Q=4 Boost=+1dB], subtle spring reverb, and faux, EQ based, cab sim, consisting of a 2 band parametric EQ set as follows: [Freq=10kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; [I]Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], plus a lush Church Reverb model with a line selector behind, making it switchable on/off)[/I][/I]

->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging // ->> Home practice / Home recordings :

->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to a quite subtle compression, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage) ->> Art Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp, with HPF at 40Hz) // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> [Effects Return] (poweramp input) of Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W, solid state guitar combo, with the build in 4 Ohm 12" speaker unit disconnected and instead hooked up to a The Box PA 502 PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (full range PA speaker with 1x 15" + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice / Home recordings ->> Behringer Eurorack UB1202 (mixer) ->> [ ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (headphones) ]/[ ->> Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC100 (tube preamp) ->> M-Audio Fast Track (sound interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) ]


Here is what kind of EQ curve the EQ'ing done in my setup approximately results in, plotted in in the parametric EQ VST of my DAW, though mind since there is no exact gain readings and that I don't have the exact Q values either, neither for the individual frequency bands of the Behringer BEQ700 or the "Voice" control on the Orange Juice, and that those two pedals further more are blended about equally, at an about a 50/50 ratio, via the Boss LS-2, some of it is qualified guesswork :
Bass-Setup-EQ-Curve-130421.jpg

(the numbers on the far left side of the image being dB readings)

Also note that the actual direct EQ settings of the various units in my setup, which is what the picture above displays are not the only aspects actually affecting the tone of my signal, for one the customized tonerpint I have loaded in the SpectraComp compressor at the start of my signal chain does boost the bass/lower mids and upper mids/treble a bit, and the fact that I have the pickup in my bass wired directly to the output jack socket will make it's raw signal contain more treble frequency content than usual is the case as well.

Point being in the end you'll have to find out what works for your specific bass and according to your specific personal preferences in any case, but a HPF set at around 40Hz or so (for a 4 string bass, slightly lower for a 5 or 6 string with a low B), and a LPF set somewhere between around 2.8kHz or so and around 3.6kHz or so, will be a good bet a something that would be a good starting point for dialing in an EQ based cab sim.

What I personally would chose over the Tech 21 QStrip for this, as a single device to do it all, if I were you, would be the Source Audio EQ2, as it will be capable of much more precise and specific, thorough and in depth customization.
 
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The way I have set it up it's actually fairly complicated, partially being due to me as much as possible insisting on making use of gear I already had at my disposal, but doesn't necessarily have to be if you can get the adjustment you need from a single unit that does it all.
...

What I personally would chose over the Tech 21 QStrip for this, as a single device to do it all, if I were you, would be the Source Audio EQ2, as it will be capable of much more precise and specific, thorough and in depth customization.

Thanks, I will look into that as well.
 
I do ampless gigs - my pedalboard is my "amp" - the thing that helps me get whe sound I need/want. I do want the low pass filter part of a cabinet simulation - removes a bit of his and de-fizzes/declinks things a bit. I don't want the high pass part - the folks at FOH will take care of that for the PA; anything I do on top of that just gets in the way of solid, extended low end. I use a Broughton low pass filter for what I need - it's simple, small, it works great, and if I want a bit more or less, there's a knob right there that I can turn, and get where I need to be wihtout any fuss or complications.
 
I picked up an Omnicab sim after hearing all the buzz. I spent a few months with it and sold it. I could see possibilities, but nothing I couldn’t do with eq and filters I already used. I was attracted to the aux in and headphone features, but they were not as nice as the set up I already had.

I do use the cabs, mikes, placement models on my HD 500x, as well as low pass, high pass, Q, and slotted eq. Plus compression, amp models, and effects.

So I guess I do use cab sims on some patches, but I couldn’t see a reason to have another, dedicated cab sim in the chain.

I can see the cab sims being useful to get specific vintage tones. My personal taste runs towards full range, which is why I built fEarfuls.
 
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Need to watch the video later, but a key to making my bass actually be audible in the mix at church was for them to run it through an amp/cab simulator on the board.

Also, your videos on the Subway amps resulted in me shelling out for a TT-800. Great amp, but I could have saved a few hundred dollars if it wasn’t for you! :D
haha I still haven't played the TT-800, though. Now you're giving me GAS :D
 
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haha I still haven't played the TT-800, though. Now you're giving me GAS :D

I know, but as soon as I heard the difference that tubes made for the WD-800 versus the non-tube preamp D800+, I knew I wanted a tube preamp from Mesa...and then it wasn’t hard to make the jump from WD-800 to TT-800.

But seriously, I really liked your D800+ versus WD-800 video. You made it really easy to pick up the difference between the two.

It’s a good thing that your video on the Strandberg Boden wasn’t a proper review, because I’m trying to waste my money on a sim racing setup versus wasting it on more basses (for now).
 
I love your videos and it was this one that let me on to the Mini Studio. I have looked at the Cab M as well but I don’t think I want to go down the rabbit hole of buying additional cab irs. It seems to only come with a couple for bass and their store packages are nearly as much as the pedal itself. I have thought about maybe going with a Tech 21 Q Strip for the HPF LPF and eq all in one. I know it’s not adjustable but they seem well placed from the reviews.

The Q Strip works well in my setup. I have it last in my chain and the DI works very well. I have noticed a difference in using the HPF/LPF. A lot of tone control and really cleans up the mud.
 
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