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Do you need music theory?
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
Me? No. I’ve made my peace with the limitations imposed by not knowing theory. Someone else? I can’t really answer that.
My comment wasn't aimed at anyone specifically. Theory helps get the most out of what you already know, sort of joins the dots and fills the holes in.
Music theory is not just for jazz. I’m nowhere near a music major, far from it, but what I do know opens up more choices of what to play. I primarily play worship music which is about as simple as it gets most of the time.
You love music! Then dive in full on... Learn as much as possible, know how it works from every angle, how it's applied to your playing and the songs you learn. Also very important, is learning how to count the sub-divisions. Music is made of 3 important aspects... 1. Rhythm 2. Melody 3. Harmony. Then by combining proper technique becomes the synergistic galvanizor of whats underneath your fingers propelled by our heart and soul, aka, our creativity! Music is simply the best, be curious and have fun even if it takes a long time to grasp certain concepts.
I always get a bit embarrassed that I don’t know the nomenclature but I know the concepts and practical applications. I equate it to being a surgeon from a foreign country who says “We’re going to tie these green and red stringy things together” instead of saying “We’ll be resecting the basal ganglia”. Same end result, just not as technically precise. I can think of very few instances in my playing career where I’ve been completely flummoxed by not being able to speak “the jargon” with other players. We always manage to get it figured out.
I answered the question as "I use it a little" because I interpreted the question to mean "when do you EXPLICITLY use theory". And I use it explicitly when I paint myself into a musical corner where my internalized knowledge that drives my ear and fingers fails me. That doesn't happen that often in the music that I play and write.
Music theory was developed to describe and communicate what people created that sounded pleasing to the ear. The music was developed initially by trial and error, and the basis for much of our music was initially created by unschooled musicians. Theory can describe what they did, it couldn't come up with it in the first place.
Did you ever have to do the calculus to figure out the force and shot angle required to sink a basketball from 15 feet away? I have. I know the theory (or at least, did). Did it help me be a better player? Uhhh...
Music theory was developed to describe and communicate what people created that sounded pleasing to the ear. The music was developed initially by trial and error, and the basis for much of our music was initially created by unschooled musicians. Theory can describe what they did, it couldn't come up with it in the first place.
Did you ever have to do the calculus to figure out the force and shot angle required to sink a basketball from 15 feet away? I have. I know the theory (or at least, did). Did it help me be a better player? Uhhh...
I wish I knew some more theory than absolute bare basics. I've tried to learn but failed time and time again. It's like maths or physics to me - I can memorize some formulas but I simply don't understand them.
Yes, like being to dumb to grasp it. It is a justification, yes - and it's 100% true in my case. I'm just too "learning impaired" or simply too stupid to understand theory (and I tried to learn that, I had a teacher etc) - and I've played for almost quarter of a century. My brain just doesn't work that way (if I could be cheeky enough to even suggest it works at all). But then again, I've long since accepted I could never even dream of becoming a pro, so please don't hate. I'm just a failed pseudo-musician with no intention (or possibility) to take a bite at anyone's cake.
However, I think popular comparison to untrained electricians, doctors or pilots are a bit over the top - no one has ever been killed by working with Pino Palladino or listening to The Beatles.
Yes, like being to dumb to grasp it. It is a justification, yes - and it's 100% true in my case. I'm just too "learning impaired" or simply too stupid to understand theory (and I tried to learn that, I had a teacher etc) - and I've played for almost quarter of a century. My brain just doesn't work that way (if I could be cheeky enough to even suggest it works at all). But then again, I've long since accepted I could never even dream of becoming a pro, so please don't hate. I'm just a failed pseudo-musician with no intention (or possibility) to take a bite at anyone's cake.
However, I think popular comparison to untrained electricians, doctors or pilots are a bit over the top - no one has ever been killed by working with Pino Palladino or listening to The Beatles.
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Whether players need it really depends on what you mean by music theory. I think all players need the basics or they won’t be able to communicate with other players using the established lingo and for learning songs quicker.
If you’re talking about everything in a music theory textbook or college level class, then most players can get away without knowing most of that stuff, but I feel like learning it has still helped me in understanding music as a whole much more.
In short, learning more certainly won’t hurt, but not knowing enough can set limits that can be problematic at times.
If you’re talking about everything in a music theory textbook or college level class, then most players can get away without knowing most of that stuff, but I feel like learning it has still helped me in understanding music as a whole much more.
In short, learning more certainly won’t hurt, but not knowing enough can set limits that can be problematic at times.
Did I "NEED" it? Well, yes and no.
I needed a basic knowledge to play/read in grade school orchestra. Could have easily just played the witten notes and been happy with that little knowledge, 'til later in high school Stage Band and backing Jazz Choir when all of a sudden teachers are throwing just chord sheets at me. Could have been happy with just that knowledge of reading chord sheets. After school and just playing in original rock and T-40 cover bands with no paper, theory certainly wasn't all that useful beyond being able to hear if chords were simple Major, minor, Dominant, etc etc and how they seemed to be used over and over again in standard rock progressions. But to go into jazzy situations and trying to hear 10 note chords, and altered substitutions, and weird chord progressions and determing roots and colors was a super challenge. So I quit my good paying professional straight job and went to college so I could take 1st year (labeling) and 2nd year (progressions, voicing, voice leading, counterpoint) Theory classes so I could begin to hear and describe to myself what I was hearing -- and so I could communicate quickly with other players who knew the same language.
Again; did I "need" it --- no. I made plenty of money and had plenty of rock gigs to pay my bills and make a pretty damn good living 70s-90s. But I "did" need it to play those occasional jazzy gigs that payed next to nothing, and yet took a solid 75% of my practice/study time. 2¢ ymmv and peace
I needed a basic knowledge to play/read in grade school orchestra. Could have easily just played the witten notes and been happy with that little knowledge, 'til later in high school Stage Band and backing Jazz Choir when all of a sudden teachers are throwing just chord sheets at me. Could have been happy with just that knowledge of reading chord sheets. After school and just playing in original rock and T-40 cover bands with no paper, theory certainly wasn't all that useful beyond being able to hear if chords were simple Major, minor, Dominant, etc etc and how they seemed to be used over and over again in standard rock progressions. But to go into jazzy situations and trying to hear 10 note chords, and altered substitutions, and weird chord progressions and determing roots and colors was a super challenge. So I quit my good paying professional straight job and went to college so I could take 1st year (labeling) and 2nd year (progressions, voicing, voice leading, counterpoint) Theory classes so I could begin to hear and describe to myself what I was hearing -- and so I could communicate quickly with other players who knew the same language.
Again; did I "need" it --- no. I made plenty of money and had plenty of rock gigs to pay my bills and make a pretty damn good living 70s-90s. But I "did" need it to play those occasional jazzy gigs that payed next to nothing, and yet took a solid 75% of my practice/study time. 2¢ ymmv and peace
Music Theory is a guide, It's helpful to know what chords or tones will sound "good" together. You can then decide whether that's what you're after or not. Not knowing music theory and writing songs is sort of like randomly picking chords and hoping a combo sounds good. It isn't very efficient.
I tell my students that I want them to be able to do 3 things when they go home, so that they can refine what we did and figure out what to do next. They are: read their pitches, locate the pitches on the fingerboard, and count how long each note and rest will last. I give them just enough theory to do those things, so they can practice without me.
This is a good place to start for an overview of theory:
Mathematical Music Theory: A comprehensive Analysis and Comparison of the Major Theoretical Models of the Twentieth Century. By Emre Sabuncuoglu.
Not only does Mr. Sabuncuoglo know his theory, he knows how to play guitar. Here he performs of Flight of the Bumble Bee:
Mathematical Music Theory: A comprehensive Analysis and Comparison of the Major Theoretical Models of the Twentieth Century. By Emre Sabuncuoglu.
Not only does Mr. Sabuncuoglo know his theory, he knows how to play guitar. Here he performs of Flight of the Bumble Bee:
So what about music ? You’re quitting to play with Allan Holsworth or Paco de because they didn’t know anything about musical theory?
Absurd
Open your mind and ears the music is first
You know about theory?
Cool, congrats, use it in the right way
