Does Cables Matter for a Bass

[stedtale]

I'm pro skub.

 

[Ben Noblit]

Listen – to all the naysayers – I must ask, what could possibly be my end game here other than simply stating I compared differently constructed cables from the same company (both around the same price) and one cable responded to my playing dynamics better? What is so hard to believe about that? Really? I could see if I was a Monster Cable rep, praising my $150 dollar cable over a $20 dollar cable, sure.

To give you more details about my controlled test:
Head: Aguilar db751 (extremely musical and high end head)
Cab: Bergantino HD410 (highly articulate and responsive cabinet)
Instruments: All passive Jazz bass (active takes everything out the window).

Now throw out the technical garbage like skin effect, etc… because honesty, that’s exactly what I did when testing.
I sat directly in front of this rig and did extensive a/b between the solid & stranded (coated stranded which is important) – and I not only heard, but felt the coated stranded cable respond a tad quicker to my playing style. What is so hard to believe about that?

FWIW – to take my “mind” out of the equation, I asked my wife to switch cables on me multiple times while I closed my eyes and every single time I could pick out what cable she connected me with. EVERY TIME. It was very apparent to me.

At the end of the day, I choose the “inferior” multi stranded (individual strands are coated which does separate it from your average cable) – over the “superior” solid core cable. If this was all placebo, don’t you think my “mind” would of swayed me towards the “superior” solid core?
All and all, the difference were subtle – but the Forte cable did respond quicker, it had a more immediate feel and presence. While the solid core sounded “warmer” but to me, a bit less responsive.

Is it that I have golden ears? No. But you do have to remember these are the same forums where people say there no sonic differences between a High Mass Bridge vs. a Bent Plate and there’s no tonal difference between Maple & Rosewood fretboards, and its purely aesthetics! So the resistance I’m seeing here absolutely surprises me in the least.

My playing style probably has a huge factor as to how I heard the differences. My style is very much like Gary Willis and Jaco – quick, dynamic, fast stops, with a lot of ghosted and muted notes. I could see how a heavy handed “rocker” type player wouldn’t hear a difference.

Folks – In conclusion, I have no end game here. I’m not promoting anything. I compared two cables that cost the same, different construction, did my own controlled test (with my wife’s help and closed eyes) and heard and felt a difference between the cables. I don’t have to “prove” anything to anyone. I without a doubt heard and felt what I did – and if you do not believe me, I could care less.

And to end my post, which will be the last in this thread – as this thread belongs under the “Live” section – I will refer back to my very first post in the thread where I stated that “live – you won’t be able to tell a difference”.

The reason you caused such a negative response probably comes from passing yourself off as a cable expert while throwing around pseudo-scientific hogwash as to why you heard a difference, rather than the fact that you heard one in the first place.

People such as our very own bongomania have proven, using measuring equipment, that the only thing that affects tone in properly constructed cables (i:e: not defective) is capacitance. Higher capacitance causes a rolloff of the high frequencies. What I suspect in your case is that the Forte cable had a lower capacitance, allowing more of the highs to go through, letting it seem to have a "faster," less "warm" response. This has nothing to do with any of the other jargon you were throwing around earlier. Capacitance. Which has little to no correlation to price.

 

[Mark Reccord]

And your a complete fool by stating skin effect anomalies don't effect tone on multi-stranded instrument cables. Your picking the wrong person to tangle with. I know cables very well - so if I were you, I'd shut it

Care to explain exactly how skin effect affects tone in stranded instrument cables? Don't be afraid to get technical. Some math backing your assertion up would be nice as well. If you're so learned about the subject, you should be able to do that with ease. School us.

 

[Mark Reccord]

FWIW, with passive instruments, sonic differences between instrument cables can be quite marked, due to the high output impedance of the passive electronics interacting with the impedance (primarily capacitance) of the cable. This is also easily measurable.

 

[Modern Growl]

Care to explain exactly how skin effect affects tone in stranded instrument cables? Don't be afraid to get technical. Some math backing your assertion up would be nice as well. If you're so learned about the subject, you should be able to do that with ease. School us.

Arg... you guys wont just leave it be, huh?

The phenomenon of skin effect causes high frequencies and low frequencies to be carried with different current densities relative to a position on the conductor - notably the outside skin of a conductor. While there are various formulae and theories as to how skin effect applies (or doesn't) to the audio spectrum in cables, empirical listening tests have shown clear differences in conductors of different size (all else being equal). Once a conductor is larger than 18awg, high frequencies tend to lose their sense of "air" or ambience.

Another source of distortion in cables is strand interaction. Cables are stranded to provide flexibility. However, every strand in a bundle is trying to carry the same audio signal as the strands next to it. The problem arises given the fact that current running through any single strand sets up a magnetic field. This magnetic field introduces change to the signal carried in neighboring strands. The more strands a conductor has, the worse the problem. When compared with a solid conductor of equal cross-sectional area, a stranded conductor obscures micro-dynamics and adds an edge to the sound similar to the distortion caused by low-purity copper. In addition, mid-bass and lower frequencies lose their sense of impact and articulation. Bass lines with stranded conductors are "fat" and slow, with obscured harmonics in comparison to bass conducted through a solid core cable.

To minimize this "skin effect", coating individual strands in a multi-stranded cable helps. After all was said and done - I prefered the tone of the multi-stranded, individually coated cable.

 

[Modern Growl]

The reason you caused such a negative response probably comes from passing yourself off as a cable expert while throwing around pseudo-scientific hogwash as to why you heard a difference, rather than the fact that you heard one in the first place.

People such as our very own bongomania have proven, using measuring equipment, that the only thing that affects tone in properly constructed cables (i:e: not defective) is capacitance. Higher capacitance causes a rolloff of the high frequencies. What I suspect in your case is that the Forte cable had a lower capacitance, allowing more of the highs to go through, letting it seem to have a "faster," less "warm" response. This has nothing to do with any of the other jargon you were throwing around earlier. Capacitance. Which has little to no correlation to price.

If you think I just heard more treble response from the stranded cable, and thought “Wow, this is a much more punchy cable” your wrong. The “immediate” response I’m speaking of was in the midrange.

 

[Prostheta]

Maybe all these voodoo factors should be listed. I contribute the following for future snake wringers:

- pure nitrogen atmosphere injected into the hermetically sealed jack shell
- cable optimised for working in the dark
- reverse-braided shield for left-handers or playing back-to-front and upside-down
- platinum coated gold coated pure synthetic panda ear inner conductor
- cable infused with uncontaminated "helper" electrons which are coralled from the Van Allen belts

Unless anything can be repeated consistently and quantifiably, anecdotal information is useless. I certainly have no interest in Monster Cable or the ironically-named "Evidence" Audio. The burden of proof should never be reversed so that it is the responsibility of somebody else to disprove a claim. By all means provide real evidence and I am sure that it will be greeted with interest, unlike anecdotal information and ad hom attacks on "heavy handed" players.

 

[Duckwater]

Man this cable stuff is just like religion. If you can hear a difference, good for you. But if you can't provide evidence, keep it to yourself.

 

[chriscrob]

Unless anything can be repeated consistently and quantifiably, anecdotal information is useless.

You are half right. You have to repeat the anecdote consistently for a long period of time and it will become truth.

I'm convinced. I'm dropping $99 on one of these.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Do you think it will be ok if I use an acoustic cable on my electric bass? I mean I know it was only intended to carry a signal from an acoustic guitar to a DI box or a mixer but perhaps it could also carry the signal from my electric bass to an amplifier?

 

[chriscrob]

Also, does anyone have the power to change a threads name?
"Does the price of cable matter for bass?" or a simple "Do cables matter for bass?" would really improve this whole discussion.

 

[Modern Growl]

Man this cable stuff is just like religion. If you can hear a difference, good for you. But if you can't provide evidence, keep it to yourself.

Do I need to provide proof that I like a Jazz bass more than a Precision? No. This is a forum and people will express experiences. This is my experience. I don't need to prove my experience to you.

 

[chriscrob]

Do I need to provide proof that I like a Jazz bass more than a Precision? No. This is a forum and people will express experiences. This is my experience. I don't need to prove my experience to you.

But what if---at least as far as there being anything better than a P bass goes---your experience is wrong?

 

[Modern Growl]

Also, does anyone have the power to change a threads name?
"Does the price of cable matter for bass?" or a simple "Do cables matter for bass?" would really improve this whole discussion.

More like -":Is there a difference between solid core vs. stranded instrument cables?" (Which is my entire position here).

 

[Soverntear]

Yes it does make a difference. Would you fill a Ferrari with low octane fuel? Then why run a high end instrument through some crap $5 generic cable. Your signal chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

[chriscrob]

More like -":Is there a difference between solid core vs. stranded instrument cables?" (Which is my entire position here).

True, I was trying to fix the subject-verb agreement thing while remaining true to the OP's general content though.

 

[cnltb]

One might want to compare an analysis plus 'pro oval studio' with a monster 'bass' cable, or a Vandenhul 'integration hybrid'.
I am quite sure most will hear a difference.
Which one they prefer is yet another matter.

 

[Modern Growl]

One might want to compare an analysis plus 'pro oval studio' with a monster 'bass' cable, or a Vandenhul 'integration hybrid'.
I am quite sure most will hear a difference.
Which one they prefer is yet another matter.

Exactly.

To state "there is no tone difference between differing cable designes" (which is what I'm facing here) is simply irresponsible and foolish. And yes, cable construction goes far beyond high & low capacitance

There ARE tone differences. Subtle? Yes. - But don’t try to knock down someone who CAN hear the differences and can make a decided choice between the multiple options.

If you have fat finger sloppy technique, active electronics and play through a garbage rig - enjoy your $10 dollar cable

 

[attackz]

One might want to compare an analysis plus 'pro oval studio' with a monster 'bass' cable, or a Vandenhul 'integration hybrid'.
I am quite sure most will hear a difference.
Which one they prefer is yet another matter.

You're not at all sure, that's the whole point of this thread. You need to have some evidence beyond "well I can hear a difference" or rather, just some evidence.

 

[Mark Reccord]

Arg... you guys wont just leave it be, huh?

The phenomenon of skin effect causes high frequencies and low frequencies to be carried with different current densities relative to a position on the conductor - notably the outside skin of a conductor. While there are various formulae and theories as to how skin effect applies (or doesn't) to the audio spectrum in cables, empirical listening tests have shown clear differences in conductors of different size (all else being equal). Once a conductor is larger than 18awg, high frequencies tend to lose their sense of "air" or ambience.

Another source of distortion in cables is strand interaction. Cables are stranded to provide flexibility. However, every strand in a bundle is trying to carry the same audio signal as the strands next to it. The problem arises given the fact that current running through any single strand sets up a magnetic field. This magnetic field introduces change to the signal carried in neighboring strands. The more strands a conductor has, the worse the problem. When compared with a solid conductor of equal cross-sectional area, a stranded conductor obscures micro-dynamics and adds an edge to the sound similar to the distortion caused by low-purity copper. In addition, mid-bass and lower frequencies lose their sense of impact and articulation. Bass lines with stranded conductors are "fat" and slow, with obscured harmonics in comparison to bass conducted through a solid core cable.

Regurgitated ad copy from high end cable manufacturers doesn't answer my question. I've read/heard all of this before. What I've never seen is a proper analysis showing that these very real EM phenomena do have real effects at audio frequencies. I'd wager that the reason for this is because there isn't one.

 

[Modern Growl]

You're not at all sure, that's the whole point of this thread. You need to have some evidence beyond "well I can hear a difference" or rather, just some evidence.

I guess that would be true if I had some economical interest in you purchasing Evidence Audio cables - which I don't. Therefore I have no interest to attempt to "prove" anything to you. "I can hear a difference" is all I personally need.

Oh yeah, Monster Cables are the best. Go buy.