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Does class D have the Heft of SS
- Thread starter MrCash
- Start date
Comparing my old TH500 to my SVT-CL, the TH lacks about 86lbs of heft. Tonewise, yes the 100lb all-tube beast had a little more in the booty dept, but without a direct comparison, you wouldn't miss it. In a live situation, it's a total non-issue.
Comparing my GK 1001RB-II to the TH would be similar, except the GK tone is different from what the TH is know for. Still, in any situation except for a direct A/B comparison, you wouldn't notice any less girth.
Truthfully, any head I plug into my Ampeg cabs can potentially sound great, so I got that going for me. Which is nice.
Comparing my GK 1001RB-II to the TH would be similar, except the GK tone is different from what the TH is know for. Still, in any situation except for a direct A/B comparison, you wouldn't notice any less girth.
Truthfully, any head I plug into my Ampeg cabs can potentially sound great, so I got that going for me. Which is nice.
I've had tube amps and currently have an SS amp, But I'm on the verge of getting my first class D amp, I'll take a shot hare and say that a SS amp lacks the heft of a tube amp and a class D amp will lack the heft of a SS amp... When I get my Class D, I'll report back.
Can anyone define "heft" and explain what sense of heft can't be manipulated by eq?
- Feb 12, 2006
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Would anybody care to explain why every pro audio touring amp handling subwoofer duty is solid state, and just about all are class D as well?
This is in a market with 6 and 7 figure budgets too...
This is in a market with 6 and 7 figure budgets too...
The secret is in the preamp of Class D. You can get the power amps all to sound very similar. I'm a fan. I have a Carvin MB10 and a Rumble 200c and one into the other thru the effects loop sounds pretty much identical one way or the other. The preamps are giving them their character...at least in my experience.
In my opinion the th500 doesn't have that bottom heft or girth as I call it. Other class d amps do a better job at that and so far in experience are Orange tb1000, Trickfish Bullhead, Epifani Picollo and Ul501. There are probably others In the class d realm of amps. There is also Monique 700.
Genz Benz Streamliner 900 - more bottom end than I know what to do with! The only heft missing is when I pick it up.
Because "heft" is a word thrown around without being defined so anyone can say anything they like.
And class D amps are SS anyway.
I believe "heft" should relate to an amp's frequency response and it's ability to put out it's rated power right down to the lowest audible frequencies. This is something that can be readily tested and measured. I've never heard that class D amps lack anything in this area.
Just as with switching power supplies, they have figured out a way to get the power solid without huge power transformers, capacitors and current.
And IIRC(retired now), they are using similar technology to switching power supplies.
And IIRC(retired now), they are using similar technology to switching power supplies.
wmhill
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I wonder if there's an element of the sort of Emperor's New Clothes thinking that audiophiles are fond of; "But can't you hear the Heft? I've been gigging for 30 years, and I can hear it."
Perhaps there's a bit of synesthesia too, where something that looks and feels big and heavy is perceived as sounding "hefty".
I think it would be a fun experiment to take the same ICEpower module that many of the micro heads use, mount it in a 4U rack case with a couple of bricks for extra weight, then see if bassists could hear the "heft" when compared to the micro heads!
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Not in the slightest! A Class AB amp has about 30 watts per pound. A Class D amp has about 72 watts per pound. That clearly means the Class D has less than half as much heft.
I think it's perception. This is why: REQUENCY RESPONSE: +/- 1 dB 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Need to eq it if you want it to sound old. Or or some pedal magic.
I put a 4 ohm 15" on mine, out of cab, sitting on the kitchen floor, and the low B made all the 1/2" dog hairs climb up into the air and danced around in a little cloud until the note faded and they slowly settled back into the cone. That at 3 or 4/10 on the gain, and at 4 ohms, the 15 "only" draws enough current for about 400 watts max. That's low end.
If I end up not using that driver, I think I'll mount it in a window, like an A/C, and use it for knocking over DUI scooters (mopeds) that lack mufflers at midnight.
@cfsporn mine comes out to 188.2352941176471 watts per pound, by the published specification
@32 watts per lb, it would weight 50 lbs! Since it's class D, it only weighs 8.5 lbs So that's better than 5:1 heft reduction. My back thanks me. 
Need to eq it if you want it to sound old. Or or some pedal magic.
I put a 4 ohm 15" on mine, out of cab, sitting on the kitchen floor, and the low B made all the 1/2" dog hairs climb up into the air and danced around in a little cloud until the note faded and they slowly settled back into the cone. That at 3 or 4/10 on the gain, and at 4 ohms, the 15 "only" draws enough current for about 400 watts max. That's low end.
If I end up not using that driver, I think I'll mount it in a window, like an A/C, and use it for knocking over DUI scooters (mopeds) that lack mufflers at midnight.
@cfsporn mine comes out to 188.2352941176471 watts per pound, by the published specification
@32 watts per lb, it would weight 50 lbs! Since it's class D, it only weighs 8.5 lbs So that's better than 5:1 heft reduction. My back thanks me. 
The perceived lack of heft is usually due to inexpensive power cables included with class d bass amps.
I have been trying to figure this out myself. Someone will claim that their "lead-sled" has much more impact in the "low end or overall volume" department than a 5lb micro head. I STILL have not heard the difference. I turn the damn thing on and I can hear myself. In a studio a/b comparison, yeah, ok. Maybe we can hear the difference. Add in band mates, Thor on drums, and guess where those differences go?
I have used power amps, the Ampeg 4 PRO, 2PRO, CL, GK heads, Trace Elliot heads, Mesa 400+ and more. My Mesa D800 has the same impact to my ears as all of them. Every one of those heads got LOUD. I never felt I was missing ANYTHING with a micro head. Class D and whatever the heck it is.
I have used power amps, the Ampeg 4 PRO, 2PRO, CL, GK heads, Trace Elliot heads, Mesa 400+ and more. My Mesa D800 has the same impact to my ears as all of them. Every one of those heads got LOUD. I never felt I was missing ANYTHING with a micro head. Class D and whatever the heck it is.
I've been playing bass for 25+ years.
My personal opinion is that nothing beats and old SVT-CL, however after years of lugging them around I went to a Class A Hybrid head (Ashdown ABM 500) because the small amount of tube tone I'm losing isn't worth the 50 lbs I also lost! Recently I've played about 20 different class D heads and found that some are pretty close to my hybrid but in my ears they lack some warmth and just overall girth.
For now, I'm not willing to trade another 20-25 lbs for a Class D tone.
Some that I thought were close:
GK 800 MB Fusion
Mesa Subway D800
Markbass Little Tube 800
Having said that, in MY experience Class D's are VERY drastically different based upon speaker pairings.
My personal opinion is that nothing beats and old SVT-CL, however after years of lugging them around I went to a Class A Hybrid head (Ashdown ABM 500) because the small amount of tube tone I'm losing isn't worth the 50 lbs I also lost! Recently I've played about 20 different class D heads and found that some are pretty close to my hybrid but in my ears they lack some warmth and just overall girth.
For now, I'm not willing to trade another 20-25 lbs for a Class D tone.
Some that I thought were close:
GK 800 MB Fusion
Mesa Subway D800
Markbass Little Tube 800
Having said that, in MY experience Class D's are VERY drastically different based upon speaker pairings.
I own both an SVT CL and a class D Markbass Momark 600. Both are amazing, but not the same. (I know, not a SS amp, but good for A/B-ing differences).
One way I found that helped to beef up the MB a little more in the low end, was to add a Radial Bassbone OD Pre before the MB.
The bass/low mods seem to have a little more grunt with the Radial, and it also has a 'drag' control which is an adjustable feature that emulates a bit of 'tube drag' you get with an actual tube amp. Really useful pedal, and also has two channels, the other being optimized for upright, in case you double, as well as a killer DI built in.
Another thing that I found helped my low end with class D as well, was going to a (2x) 1x12 Aguilar setup, instead of a 4x10. There were more lows and low mids present it seems with the 12's to my ears with the Aggies.
Check the Radial out, maybe it will work for you too!
One way I found that helped to beef up the MB a little more in the low end, was to add a Radial Bassbone OD Pre before the MB.
The bass/low mods seem to have a little more grunt with the Radial, and it also has a 'drag' control which is an adjustable feature that emulates a bit of 'tube drag' you get with an actual tube amp. Really useful pedal, and also has two channels, the other being optimized for upright, in case you double, as well as a killer DI built in.
Another thing that I found helped my low end with class D as well, was going to a (2x) 1x12 Aguilar setup, instead of a 4x10. There were more lows and low mids present it seems with the 12's to my ears with the Aggies.
Check the Radial out, maybe it will work for you too!
