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Does logic matter if it doesn't change the way I live?
- Thread starter slobake
- Start date
Hey hold on there just a minute. First of all, have you been speaking with Bocete? Secondly does Gorn know about this? I mean we haven't even been properly introduced. Then there is the ring. Does it have to be a diamond? And what about the kids? How can we ever agree on what religion we are not going to bring them up in? And lastly but most important, who gets control of the remote?
Okay here is another analogy for you. I am happily married to the same woman for 34 years. I am more madly in love with her than i ever have been. We are totally open with each other about who we are and what we are thinking. I know she is my soulmate and the the best thing that ever happened to me.
Gorn doesn't believe in marriage. (poor Gorn how did he get dragged into this?) He says I can't prove that I love my wife and that I would be just as happy without her or maybe happier. After all, he says I am a good man and I would be a good man without her too. Why should I have to tied down to just one woman who has so much power over me? There are plenty of other great women. How do I know I wouldn't be just as happy with one or all of them? Not tied down to any one woman.
I tell Gorn that yes I can't prove that I love my wife and I can't even prove that love is anything more than a biological response. But I also tell Gorn that I was with a lot of other women before I met my wife and none of them captured my heart like she did. I tell him that it would not be logical for me to turn my back on my wife that means so much to me, even If I can't prove that I love her. Besides I couldn't do it anyway.
Be more mindful, you'll break Gorn's heart if you continue talking like that.
I think I know what you're getting at. There are limits to logic. Sometimes logic can hold you back or get in the way. Right?
Slobake is putting words in Gorn's mouth, I'm sure, when suggesting all that. The fact that you're happy doesn't mean that you couldn't be more happy. Why not? You just don't know. But, admitting this is not the same as urging you to change your life, Slo. I'm happy for you, envious even, and I wish you to stay where you are for years to come.
As for logic getting in the way of something.. I don't see it. I don't see the logic in his example. Poor logic can and does get in the way of things, sure, but I don't even see poor logic.
Here's the logic I read into it. Gorn thinks it is logical that Slo would be just as good a man and be just as happy with many woman. Slo says he can't use logic to explain why his wife is his soulmate. So if Slo followed Gorn's logic, logic would get in the way of what Slo knows is best for him.
But maybe I'm putting words in Slo's mouth.
That's correct, but I want to be clear that we just used Gorn as a name. Ask Tom why , yeah yeah it's Tom's fault.
Sometimes my experience is what I go on. Talking about logic is great and it is a useful tool. Sometimes life trumps logic. Does that make sense?
That's correct, but I want to be clear that we just used Gorn as a name. Ask Tom why , yeah yeah it's Tom's fault.
Sometimes my experience is what I go on. Talking about logic is great and it is a useful tool. Sometimes life trumps logic. Does that make sense?
Yeah, nothing against Gorn.
I don't know if this helps, but I once heard a science vs art debate with a scientist and a writer. It was very cordial. Very NPR. The one statement I took away was "Science's job is to describe life. It describes photosynthesis in a flower. It's the artist, writer, poet and philosopher's job to explain the flower." Both the scientist and the writer agreed on that.
You could also think about it like music theory. You can figure out the theory behind a Hendrix solo, but those solos came from something intangible in Jimi. Knowing music theory is great and definitely won't hurt you as a musician, but there's an intangible point where theory leaves off and the artist takes over.
Logic doesn't say that if something might be true, it will be (Talking about the possibility of a better life with others as cause to divorce).
Logic doesn't say that, if you can't explain something, it's false (regarding his wife being his soulmate)
See what I mean? In both cases logic dictates him to stay and be happy. And before you say that logic can be used to explain anything so why bother, let me stop you. Logic is useful and is set apart only because it never reaches contradictory conclusions. When it might or does, check your premises, as that book proudly proclaimed as some deep insight.
As for things existing that are outside logic, sure, but in what way is that relevant? There exist great things outside cupcakes too, but we still love cupcakes.
When logic is applicable, it really should trump everything else. If you find a case where you would disagree, please try hard to make sure the logic is sound. It probably isn't.
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I see what you're saying. Maybe that wasn't a good example. If I'm understanding Slo's point, it's that sometimes the illogical choice might be the best choice for intangible reasons.
Did you ever hear John Lee Hooker? There are young kids who have way more technical prowess than he does. Still nobody plays guitar like John Lee, he is in a class all by himself. Standard approaches to blues don't apply to him.
I got to see him play several times. Even when he was old he rocked it!
Yeeeeeah! I agree.
Just a side note. I took a few lessons from a bass player who did one tour with John Lee Hooker. He said it was the hardest tour he ever did because John Lee made it up as he went along. Sometimes a verse would have 8 lines before a chord change, sometimes only three. He said he spent every gig watching John Lee's hand to know what the chords were and just played by the seat of his pants.
Great question. I've been trying to read between the lines myself. Not that it's a bad thread, mind you.
We don't know the thread is quite illogical.
I think it is about things that we do that are not logical to and cause us problems. We may know on an intellectual level that something is not logical but we still do it. Like the example I gave about worrying. At least that was my original intention.
It is also about things that may not seem logical but we know from experience those things are the best choice even if we only have our experience to go on. Like my example about marriage.
Trying to apply logic to a relationship seems futile. I've often thought about permanent relationships and how completely mad the entire thing seems. In the end I've come to the personal conclusion that we're hard wired for certain things. Preferences aside, desire aside, I'm speaking of fundamental need here. Trying to quantify even that for ourselves seems futile. I can't tell you what it is about my gal that does it, but I know that when it's not there I feel it profoundly. Some things about her drive me to the edge of all reason, but even that, I think, is hard wired in me. If she was a completely known entity I would likely be bored. The constant discovery of both myself and her ( by way of our interactions with each other and the world around us ) is as necessary as breathing. Heck people look at us and wonder "How the hell did he manage that?!?" I've clearly over kicked my coverage. Happily so! You know the situation, you see two people together and one just seems out of place. Logic had nothing to do with it. I'm exactly the bass playing often silly meat-bag she's hard wired for.
Thank goodness.
Thank goodness.
My life is a constant stream of worry and regret. I know neither of these things are helpful. I know they only make me more miserable. But I also know I am not able to stop either of them. Some people say they are, and I have no reason to doubt them, but I am not. And yet, everyone I've ever talked to tells me I am wrong, and that I can stop both harmful thought processes if I A) want to and B) try. The one thing that *everyone* lacks is a clear instruction as to how to do it. Part A is easy. Part B is a total ****ing mystery.
Logic says that if other people can do it, I should be able to do it also. But here I stand, unable to do it. Thus, either everyone who says that they can stop worrying or let go of regret is lying or wrong, or logic is not always a reliable indicator of reality.
Logic says that if other people can do it, I should be able to do it also. But here I stand, unable to do it. Thus, either everyone who says that they can stop worrying or let go of regret is lying or wrong, or logic is not always a reliable indicator of reality.
Good post, I have been unable to stop worrying but I do worry a whole lot less then I used to. So much less that I doesn't affect my life too much.
For me the how part has been spiritual. I know that doesn't appeal to everyone and it is not something that is appropriate to discuss further here.
No.
And even if this were true, this has nothing to do with the 'how' part. I know that just saying 'stop it' doesn't work, a person very close to me has been battling depression all her life. I'd do everything to help her, but I don't know how. This is not a problem of logic, though. There's nothing logical about saying 'make it so' and expecting it to be!
Emotional triage.
We bandage up what hurts the worst and leave the little ones alone. After awhile the little ones can become a significant problem. So we put a bandage on those. Sometimes we find a cure for them, sometimes we learn from them and sometimes we are a slave to them.
One thing I know, we all have this. Even the most well adjusted seemingly tranquil person goes through it too.
I also believe that, by and large, we are the source of most of our suffering both real and imagined. Tragically illogical, that, but no less true I feel.
Spirituality helps some, stoicism is for some and yet others look internally. They are all tools, in the end and none are more or less important for each individual case. That's kinda cool to realize.
We bandage up what hurts the worst and leave the little ones alone. After awhile the little ones can become a significant problem. So we put a bandage on those. Sometimes we find a cure for them, sometimes we learn from them and sometimes we are a slave to them.
One thing I know, we all have this. Even the most well adjusted seemingly tranquil person goes through it too.
I also believe that, by and large, we are the source of most of our suffering both real and imagined. Tragically illogical, that, but no less true I feel.
Spirituality helps some, stoicism is for some and yet others look internally. They are all tools, in the end and none are more or less important for each individual case. That's kinda cool to realize.
