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Does not being able to play jazz = being a poor bass player?
- Thread starter glocke1
- Start date
Seems to be some ambiguity in here, I think I was falling into the trap too.
Jazz and music theory are not the same things!
Jazz is just another style of music. It can be simple or complex. Plenty of jazz tunes can be played by ear and require only a few minutes of study to be able to play.
Jazz and music theory are not the same things!
Jazz is just another style of music. It can be simple or complex. Plenty of jazz tunes can be played by ear and require only a few minutes of study to be able to play.
it's difficult for everyone!
no they don't...maybe you heard some player say that, but jazz cats (as a group) don't go around saying any such thing. that's more likely in your own head.
no they don't...maybe you've experienced some cats who have toted that kind of arrogance, but as a group: jazz cats are some of the most fun, generous, respectful, and humble cats around.
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One needs to define it for oneself. For me, my jazz bass playing will likely never expand to the level that my jazz singing is, but then, I've been singing seriously for 30 more years than I've been playing. So, I work to increase my understanding and playing in the style, but I won't beat myself up about it. Hopefully by the time I'm done on this ride, I will be able to hang with real cats.
"Jazz" has many facets, many styles/types ... straight ahead, Latin, big band, fusion, smooth, and the list can go on forever. The ability to become fluent in a musical setting is greatly dependent upon your ability to fully understand the particular style being played at any time. Just because you can read notation perfectly does not mean you can sit in and play with a funk band. The more tools you can assemble as you mature musically the more in demand your skills will become to others. A huge part of that is the ability to be musically diverse ... read notation, understand theory, develop good time, become technically proficient ...
I know many jazz players who stink. I know many rock guys who are great. I know classical players who can instantly sight read anything you give them, but can't play two notes without a chart in front of them.
There is no broad or correct answer to your question. Yes, to be able to play in a strong jazz setting you must be musically conversant or you'll embarrass yourself. But to go to local "jazz jams"? Most of those jams, where they are playing Autumn Leaves or anything from the Real Book, are very good opportunities to get your feet wet. If you aren't comfortable in those settings then you have a lot of work to do.
I know many jazz players who stink. I know many rock guys who are great. I know classical players who can instantly sight read anything you give them, but can't play two notes without a chart in front of them.
There is no broad or correct answer to your question. Yes, to be able to play in a strong jazz setting you must be musically conversant or you'll embarrass yourself. But to go to local "jazz jams"? Most of those jams, where they are playing Autumn Leaves or anything from the Real Book, are very good opportunities to get your feet wet. If you aren't comfortable in those settings then you have a lot of work to do.
From a technical perspective…maybe.
But there's also having an understanding and respect for genre. I've seen a otherwise excellent jazz players do a crash and burn during a solo at jams where rock or blues was on the menu. Being Guitar George ("he knows all the chords") and having theory bleeding out of every pore doesn't teach you artistry, feel, or stylistic conventions. And that goes both ways.
Doesn't make you a bad bass player. But it helps with your overall abilities. I know that even if I'm at a blues jam and someone calls a tune with a somewhat more complex set of changes, you can tell the players who have at least a basic understanding of standard jazz changes (they're able to pick up things quickly) from the ones that don't they (tend to get lost).
I'm somewhere between mediocre and reasonable at playing jazz, and know that being able to do so helps my playing a lot in other genres.
I'm somewhere between mediocre and reasonable at playing jazz, and know that being able to do so helps my playing a lot in other genres.
Nobody said it is. Theory is just a method to explain why something sounds good and some things don't. Once understood, it can be utilized in many ways in every genre. Jazz is just the common way most of us are exposed to the study of music theory (I was exposed to it using classical music in high school, analyzing Beethoven's 5th, but my involvement with jazz really put it use). If nothing else, it helps you to understand the benefits of interval training, which is helpful in any genre, because you can more quickly identify chord patterns. No, I didn't need jazz to hear the I IV V or the I vi IV V patterns, but theory helped me to understand why these types of well used structures sound good to us.
Yes jazz, is not appreciated by the masses as a rule any more - the jazzed up popular tunes of the 30s, 40s and 50s is a thing of the past for the most part. And I agree that way too often, jazz sounds like a bunch of scale exercises, but that is just some people's method of soloing (I find that very boring and spend a great deal of time making sure that my solos do not sound like that - ie I'm not much of an improviser).
Yes, some people don't understand how to understand something without using it. Just because some people want to throw in jazz concepts into classic rock song doesn't mean that everyone does. Don't condemn a genre because some people misuse it.
That doesn't mean that studying jazz and or theory is not useful to any musician.
Ah, jazz....I've heard it described as playing hundreds of chord changes for an audience of three, while the blues is playing three chord changes for an audience of hundreds. That's about right in my experience as a jazz player.
Bob
Bob
Not being able to play jazz makes you a poor jazz player. Nothing more.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
As someone who plays jazz regularly, in addition to rock, I will say no. But the ability to play jazz will open up a whole bagful of sonic options, both rhythmically and medodically. It's no coincidence that many great session players (James Jamerson, Anything Jackson) came from jazz.
I know a lot of musicians who are all classical all the time, no rock and no jazz. PhD level classical players. To generalize - they have outstanding chops, they are excellent sight readers, and they have deep, deep vocabulary in the music of their areas of expertise. Many of them are well versed in teaching techniques around their instruments.
They aren't generally comfortable in situations where the notes they are supposed to play aren't written out in detail in front of them, and they aren't as likely to be writers.
All IME and in general.
I don't condemn jazz and I don't ignore theory. Personally, I'm just not into making music that non-musicians can't remember or understand. I prefer simple music.
Jazz is old music to me, it's a cultural difference. It's mainly music history to me, like classical. I think it's safe to say that film score is the primary source of classical music for recent generations. It's background music to evoke a mood, it's not on most young people's playlists.
Jazz is old music to me, it's a cultural difference. It's mainly music history to me, like classical. I think it's safe to say that film score is the primary source of classical music for recent generations. It's background music to evoke a mood, it's not on most young people's playlists.
Not being able to play jazz = being a poor jazz musician.
Note that being a good jazz musician also means being poor in the end.
I love listening to jazz but I don't like playing it that much, especially the be-bop / Hard-bop era. Walking over a hundred changes isn't much fun to me. It feels like too much effort for a mundane result.
It's good for the brain though.
Note that being a good jazz musician also means being poor in the end.
I love listening to jazz but I don't like playing it that much, especially the be-bop / Hard-bop era. Walking over a hundred changes isn't much fun to me. It feels like too much effort for a mundane result.
It's good for the brain though.
Anytime you can expand your knowledge of theory, jazz or otherwise, you have expanded yourself. Jazz can often be sprinkled into a lot of unrelated music. My father told me he got a session call in the '60s, heavy jazz. He got through it but it was three hours of hell. He is by no means a jazz guy. He said, "it doesn't mean I can't play...it means they called the wrong guy"
