Does not being able to play jazz = being a poor bass player?

[Bunk McNulty]

I enjoy listening to jazz. I even get ideas from listening to jazz bassists. I have only the greatest respect for guys like George Mraz, Buster Williams, Reggie Workman, Peter Washington and on and on. I am never going to be able to play the way they do, and that's just reality. That hasn't stopped me from playing rock, blues, R&B, country, etc. Put me in a jazz setting, or a classical setting, and I will stink the joint out. But I'm good enough at the music I know how to play to be working weekends with some regularity. What's the problem?

 

[bkbirge]

I know a lot of musicians who are all classical all the time, no rock and no jazz. <snip> They aren't generally comfortable in situations where the notes they are supposed to play aren't written out in detail in front of them, and they aren't as likely to be writers.

I think that is a common perception. I'm curious what they would say though.

I will say I have met a few classical players over the years that can improvise with the best, although that would be in the classical style. I bet (though I don't know) you see more of that in the Early Music and Baroque genres of classical where research into how people actually played back then is a never ending topic of debate.

As far as writing, I'm curious, on one hand classical players by definition are steeped in history with the focus on performance not writing, but on the other hand there are fantastic modern film composers that write all the time. If we compared the ratio of weekend warrior cover band players over rockers that write songs to the ratio of classical musicians over classical style composers I wonder what the numbers would look like.

 

[JimmyM]

it's difficult for everyone!


no they don't...maybe you heard some player say that, but jazz cats (as a group) don't go around saying any such thing. that's more likely in your own head.



no they don't...maybe you've experienced some cats who have toted that kind of arrogance, but as a group: jazz cats are some of the most fun, generous, respectful, and humble cats around.

They have gotten a lot better about that stuff over the past couple decades, I guess, but plenty of them still have that attitude. It's mostly the older musicians who are the worst about it. The younger generation actually seems more hip than that. But that kind of attitude has existed for a very long time in jazz, and even if they're smarter about saying it out loud, I still believe there are plenty who feel that way, even in the younger set.

 

[electracoyote]

The rock and jam band stuff I can play pretty well, but the jazz thing is something else entirely.

Over the past 30 odd years I've dabbled in it on occasion, and each time I get frustrated and stop.

Some stuff I can probably get through ok, but ultimately its just not a genre I play well at all, which sucks as I've always held being able to play that material as sort of being the gold standard for a bass player.

Well, to say not playing jazz makes one a poor bass player is obviously way too broad of a stroke. However, IMHO...

I did evolve in a new and fresh direction when I started to pick up some jazz, even at a rudimentary level. For starters, it forced me to bone up on my reading skills in standard notation. It seems most of the better primers are written in standard.

Second, it forced me to apply formal knowledge such as new scales, inversions, and chord progressions and put them into practice. At the same time, chord extensions and appropriate note choices that I took for granted as a guitar player required a learning curve to apply as a bass player.

In short, it does develop your technical knowledge of both the genre and music in general to at least dip your toes in the shallow end of the jazz pool. Like anything, go at your own pace and don't get overwhelmed; if one explanation of a concept doesn't make sense, find one that does. Like eating an elephant, you still can only do it one bite at a time.

 

[Bassbeater]

rockers that write songs

guilty as charged

 

[J-Mags]

I've played with a lot of jazz players who had no feel for rock, punk, reggae, or even sometimes blues (although I'd question how good they were at jazz when they couldn't play blues). But jazz does give you the harmonic language to branch out if you feel like you're playing the same thing all the time harmonically or melodically, especially in an improvising situation.

To say you can't be a great bassist without playing jazz is insulting to all the great bass players who couldn't play jazz.

 

[Tommyc]

Dunno. I don't think Koussevitzky played jazz.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Aside from a virtuoso group or one from a genre you are totally unfamiliar with playing, are you the guy that someone rings up first when they have a new project? Do drummers often say "I like playing with you!"? Are people looking to you when they get lost in the song?

There's certainly nothing that studying jazz will hurt, but I think there's more to being a bassist (or musician) than just the theory. All the theory in the world won't make you show up on time or practice the music for you. Someone who "sucks" to me is somebody who refuses to progress as a musician and has a poor work ethic, because you can fix nearly any problem with proper effort and motivation.

 

[SLO Surfer]

I'm an advocate for learning as many styles as you can. Each one you study will make you a "better" musician.

Have you ever heard a traditional jazz drummer try to play rock? Many sound just as fish-out-of-water as a rock player trying to play jazz. It goes both/all ways.

 

[JRA]

I've played with a lot of jazz players who had no feel for rock, punk, reggae, or even sometimes blues

me too...but they weren't bass players! jazz bassists are some of the hippest (and open!) cats on earth.

a lot of this thread is an attempt to quantify something which isn't readily quantifiable. also: many here are just repeating their own untested assumptions/biases. a jazz cat is no different from any other player --- in any regard --- unless you reduce the discussion to "i knew a cat who..."

your own prejudices are showing, or, your own lack of skills/chops/experience when you make sweeping statements like some of the above in this thread.

if you choose jazz (for fun or profit), then you embark on a journey which never ends. how is that different from any other genre? it's not!

 

[Bob_Ross]

"poor"? Not necessarily.

"Less Employable", probably.

 

[edro]

Folks have their own little comfortable hole wallowed out.
Hard to jump into other uncomfortable waters for most.

A bud is a gifted shredder on a grand scale.... I used to ask him if he knew Stormy Monday or Thrill....
That type of playing was beyond him.... He had technique and theory running out of his ears... Blues was beyond him...

He would probably stroked out on Muddy type stuff of 'yeah, let's drop a beat here and add one here for no freaking apparent reason.'....

 

[Medicine Man]

If you don't play jazz you should learn some jazz. If you do play jazz you should learn some reggae. If you play reggae you should learn country. If you play country you should learn funk. If you play funk you should learn metal. And so on. We don't get better by playing kinds of music we already know.

 

[mellowinman]

Isn't jazz that music where everybody just plays whatever, and then calls it "jazz?"

No thanks.*

*post is a joke

 

[bkbirge]

If you play reggae you should learn country. If you play country you should learn funk. If you play funk you should learn metal. And so on. We don't get better by playing kinds of music we already know.

And if you don't play Klezmer... well some things are better left unexplored.

 

[chadds]

Besides it's all music. Play what you like. Play what you hear. Expand your range by listening to everything. Study music it does open your life.

If you find you don't hear a certain kind of music find a teacher or player of that style to talk to you through it. Seriously I've known people who say they don't get jazz. Then you explain that this part is actually the same as in a pop tune when the vocalist is singing the verse followed by the chorus they see the construction. Only thing that changed was how they heard.

It's all music.

 

[bolophonic]

I just focus on sounding as awesome as possible no matter what genre I'm playing and that's it.

 

[Rib 13]

I enjoy listening to jazz. I even get ideas from listening to jazz bassists. I have only the greatest respect for guys like George Mraz, Buster Williams, Reggie Workman, Peter Washington and on and on. I am never going to be able to play the way they do, and that's just reality. That hasn't stopped me from playing rock, blues, R&B, country, etc. Put me in a jazz setting, or a classical setting, and I will stink the joint out. But I'm good enough at the music I know how to play to be working weekends with some regularity. What's the problem?

youll be surprised just how many jazz players cant play rock or country with the right feel and aren't disciplined enough to play AC/DC grooves with fervent simplicity

 

[chadds]

When you finish your jazz internship consider Polka Funk.
Think you were stretching before?

 

[nilorius]

In playing jazz you have to have your own ego, just listen some jazz songs and try to upgrade yours. Yes, in jazz you must be wiser and jazz iss more difficult, but you can do it.