And play with a pick. A really big pick for DB.
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My ideal tone has an inherent earthiness to the bass; a natural tone that is "woody" in character, but with some punch to it. I slap a lot so a nice snap with the strings on the fingerboard is also ideal (I'm playing a rosewood fingerboard on my old Kay but will be upgrading it to ebony soon). Playing slap and pizz I also need a lot of thump in the bottom end to keep up with the drummer and I always have to play amplified. For many years I ran an Underwood pickup through an SVT II head with an Ampeg 810 cabinet as this was what was necessary to hang with a loud, Gretsch-playing guitarist and a drummer. This setup always worked fine for me until I started to learn to appreciate the more natural side of getting DB tone, which also coincided with all of my band making a conscious decision to play a bit quieter (less psychobilly — more jump blues/rockabilly/old country and bluegrass). I upgraded my rig to an AI Clarus two channel head and started using stereo pickups (Vic's Model C - love it!) and now I'm mixing it with a mic (Sennheiser E604) and I'm getting much more of a natural tone now. I use the synthetic Evah Pirazzi Slap E and A strings and pair them with an Oliv D and G, so an old school pizz tone is what I like; although I've been messing around with a dead Spiro E and A I bought here on TB and I love the growl of those strings too, but they're Hell to slap. There is just so much that goes into tone. My favorite players tone is 50s/early 60s Mingus mixed with some Sam Jones thump; if that would even be possible to attain. I love Blanton's arco tone on the Duets album with The Duke too; so I'm a big fan of gut strings played arco style. Slap style I'm a huge fan of Ric Ramirez's sound on Wayne Hancock's first album. He slapped a full set of Eudoxas back then.
I've been working through Simandl for the first time while quarantining after 25 years of rockabilly; and I'm really enjoying learning some arco on my own.
In a perfect world I would just use a microphone to play live and as I continue to expand my listening and practice with jazz I'm hoping to do much more of this in the future. "Once Covid goes away..." is starting to sound like something that actually might start happening by the spring, so I plan on working with a teacher to play and learn more jazz along with continuing working on using a bow.
I've been working through Simandl for the first time while quarantining after 25 years of rockabilly; and I'm really enjoying learning some arco on my own.
In a perfect world I would just use a microphone to play live and as I continue to expand my listening and practice with jazz I'm hoping to do much more of this in the future. "Once Covid goes away..." is starting to sound like something that actually might start happening by the spring, so I plan on working with a teacher to play and learn more jazz along with continuing working on using a bow.
Chocolate.
Bryn Terfel.
Marilyn Horne.
Hillary Hahn.
Yo-Yo Ma.
32-foot organ pipes.
-S-
Bryn Terfel.
Marilyn Horne.
Hillary Hahn.
Yo-Yo Ma.
32-foot organ pipes.
-S-
Hmmm....I like both Christian's and John's sound, but to my ears, the two could not be further apart. John's bass sounds mid-scooped to me. Whereas Christian's bass has more prominent mid range with the bottom not being too boomy and the top not as trebley as John.
when I ordered my bass, i described what I wanted:
richness. woody, complex, richness. Full big sound on bottom, not boomy but thick. full mid range, and singing upper register that is not muffled/too dark. not nasal, but projecting and rich.
the maker nailed my description exactly, and I could not be happier.
on many basses I find they have one great sounding register. if it's a big box, the low end is huge but the thumb position seems not to project. small basses can have the most amazing celloistic quality up top, but can be a little underwhelming on bottom. obviously, this is why many folks own two or more basses. having it all on one is certainly possible. Lots of fine instruments in the $20k+ range achieve this, but I am sure to varying degrees.
richness. woody, complex, richness. Full big sound on bottom, not boomy but thick. full mid range, and singing upper register that is not muffled/too dark. not nasal, but projecting and rich.
the maker nailed my description exactly, and I could not be happier.
on many basses I find they have one great sounding register. if it's a big box, the low end is huge but the thumb position seems not to project. small basses can have the most amazing celloistic quality up top, but can be a little underwhelming on bottom. obviously, this is why many folks own two or more basses. having it all on one is certainly possible. Lots of fine instruments in the $20k+ range achieve this, but I am sure to varying degrees.
i played a seth kimmel bass with this, and it was a really great feature... an all around wonderful bass that i came really close to buying, actually.
A friend of mine has a very small (1/4?) Chinese bass that was originally more or jess junk. It was completely taken apart, graduated, chalk-fit the top to the ribs, everything, and part of the overhaul was adding these little sound ports to the bass side rib. He sold it to a student of mine who still plays it, and it does wonders on that weird little bass as well. It's a nice feature that has seen proof of concept, I doubt many modern makers would be hesitant to do it.
The rich, resonant tone that comes with being in tune with the others I'm playing with.
Were you ordering a bass, or a wine?
IIRC, in the Paris tests of Strads vs modern fiddles, the fiddles that received the highest ratings (not all Strads) generally had the most consistent sound across the board. Hell, I bet most of us have a favorite string or 2! That is what keeps the stringmakers in business and our string drawers full!
Depth and complexity in a pronounced Woody statement. I want the upper register to sing and the lower register to growl. There are so many great sounding bassists out there. I really like deep tones Drew Gress gets out of that big bass. My main bass is a really big old Tyrol flat back that delivers. It's currently set up with spirocore weichs and a mittel E. Sounds great. Now that it has the MK4 amplified is also great sounding.
Were you ordering a bass, or a wine?
IIRC, in the Paris tests of Strads vs modern fiddles, the fiddles that received the highest ratings (not all Strads) generally had the most consistent sound across the board. Hell, I bet most of us have a favorite string or 2! That is what keeps the stringmakers in business and our string drawers full!
hey, the maker seemed to know what i meant because my bass has got a hell of a rich sound!!
It's a very complex question IMHO because we are really talking about a recipe that balances a wide variety of ingredients and unfortunately many of the ingredients interact with each other.
Often we think of characteristics as bipolar, but in reality many have multiple poles, and there may be interactions or linkages across multiple variables. Some variables have a directly proportional relationship. This means they tend to increase together. It does not necessarily mean they increase at the same rate. Other variables tend to have an inversely proportional relationship. In other words as one variable increases that other decreases.
The idea I am trying to present is it can be very difficult to find the combination of characteristics that really floats your boat because of the confounding way the interactions work. Make a change that increases one variable, and you find it is linked inversely to another variable and pushes it in the wrong direction.
I like a bass with a full, clear, and focused tone. I like it to have some grind/growl but also a certain amount of thump and bloom. I also like it to have a singing quality under the bow.
I don't like it when the sound is pinched under the bow or when the front end of the pizz attack is too brittle and hard. Ideally, the pizz should have a certain balance of attack, thump, sustain, bloom, and decay.
I guess this is even more complicated because I play jazz and orchestral. Also I use a lot of amp, and the level of amplification tends to have a significant impact on the sound. Finding a bass that sounds good acoustically and also amplifies well, is also a bit of a dilemma.
I remember a Horst Grunert I played about 30 years ago
drool. It seemed to do everything I wanted. It was a cannon and also amplified well. It also played rather easily for a 7/8.
Often we think of characteristics as bipolar, but in reality many have multiple poles, and there may be interactions or linkages across multiple variables. Some variables have a directly proportional relationship. This means they tend to increase together. It does not necessarily mean they increase at the same rate. Other variables tend to have an inversely proportional relationship. In other words as one variable increases that other decreases.
The idea I am trying to present is it can be very difficult to find the combination of characteristics that really floats your boat because of the confounding way the interactions work. Make a change that increases one variable, and you find it is linked inversely to another variable and pushes it in the wrong direction.
I like a bass with a full, clear, and focused tone. I like it to have some grind/growl but also a certain amount of thump and bloom. I also like it to have a singing quality under the bow.
I don't like it when the sound is pinched under the bow or when the front end of the pizz attack is too brittle and hard. Ideally, the pizz should have a certain balance of attack, thump, sustain, bloom, and decay.
I guess this is even more complicated because I play jazz and orchestral. Also I use a lot of amp, and the level of amplification tends to have a significant impact on the sound. Finding a bass that sounds good acoustically and also amplifies well, is also a bit of a dilemma.
I remember a Horst Grunert I played about 30 years ago
drool. It seemed to do everything I wanted. It was a cannon and also amplified well. It also played rather easily for a 7/8.
What tone am I looking for? Simple,really: The tone that I know any of my basses would produce if only I were good enough to coax it from them. Sometimes I hear it, but not as often as I'd like.
I have a new bass that I commissioned in Oct/2018, and I got it finally in Feb/2020, just in time for the Corona pause. Alone in my practice studio, and in different rooms in the house, it seems to lack some bottom end to my ears. It's got plenty of growl/grind both pizz and arco. The upper register sings and it has decent volume and power. The bottom strings are where the "grit" is. Overall, it has a mid rangey tone character, like a silver tuba. So I've been looking for strings that have a "mid-scoop" character to help balance my bass mid-hump.
I have been having troubles "liking" this instrument, all alone this last year in my practice studio, because it doesn't have as "full" a sound as some of you are saying here in this thread. Spirituality, it has a lot of soul since it was made by my friend. It sounds good amplified with an ehrlund pickup just outside of the bass bass bar about even with the lower f-hole eye into my AI/Coda.
Finally 2 weeks ago, I got the opportunity to play it in a small string orchestra -- wow it sounds great "in the mix". I can hear myself better, and there's not so much boom and spread muddying up everything. I'm not sure how it sounds "out front". Most halls naturally amplify boom and reverberance, and I'm glad to not be putting out so much mud.
I think it certainly had a unique voice, bordering on assertive. Perhaps it's not what orchestral bassist want, but so many times, in recordings and in live concerts, I feel that the sound coming from the bass section is too much cushion and not enough back bone -- and sounds "late".
Does this make sense?
I have been having troubles "liking" this instrument, all alone this last year in my practice studio, because it doesn't have as "full" a sound as some of you are saying here in this thread. Spirituality, it has a lot of soul since it was made by my friend. It sounds good amplified with an ehrlund pickup just outside of the bass bass bar about even with the lower f-hole eye into my AI/Coda.
Finally 2 weeks ago, I got the opportunity to play it in a small string orchestra -- wow it sounds great "in the mix". I can hear myself better, and there's not so much boom and spread muddying up everything. I'm not sure how it sounds "out front". Most halls naturally amplify boom and reverberance, and I'm glad to not be putting out so much mud.
I think it certainly had a unique voice, bordering on assertive. Perhaps it's not what orchestral bassist want, but so many times, in recordings and in live concerts, I feel that the sound coming from the bass section is too much cushion and not enough back bone -- and sounds "late".
Does this make sense?
It makes great sense. The sound that "sells" us in the showroom or studio is often not the sound that works best when actually playing music with others - and vice versa.
Strong in the mid-range, decent volume and power, sounds great in the mix but not so much alone?
Tie on some frets and call it the 1750s version of the precision bass.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
That Larry Grenadier clip sounds absolutely beautiful and would certainly be my goal IF I were playing alone. I have always loved Larry's tone but I doubt he plays many gigs on tiny bandstands in clubs with loud drunken patrons competing to be heard above the noise from the bar, kitchen etc.
In my experience, basses that sound best acoustically with the rich overtones and nuance we love often fail when it counts. Give me a clear, even bass with a strong tone that sounds good, and can be felt on the gig.
In my experience, basses that sound best acoustically with the rich overtones and nuance we love often fail when it counts. Give me a clear, even bass with a strong tone that sounds good, and can be felt on the gig.
When I look up from the stage and see people dancing and smiling, I know that my bass and I are doing just fine and try to remind myself that is what it is all about.
All of the rest is just nitpicking minutia throwing your #!@% out on the table to compare with the two other bass players in the room while nobody else notices....
All of the rest is just nitpicking minutia throwing your #!@% out on the table to compare with the two other bass players in the room while nobody else notices....
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
When I look up from the stage and see people dancing and smiling, I know that my bass and I are doing just fine and try to remind myself that is what it is all about.
All of the rest is just nitpicking minutia throwing your #!@% out on the table to compare with the two other bass players in the room while nobody else notices....
It's called the bass for a reason. The Judge used to say that the function of the instrument was to serve as a house, a home where each musician felt comfortable and could make great music. Floor, walls and ceiling. Nobody really cares about our sound; much less about us. The musicians we play with care about how it FEELS when we make music together.
