Double Bass DPA 4099B v REALIST for ARCO in Live situations

[what the pluck]

Hi there
I have been looking around at my options and have narrowed it down to the dpa 4099b or a realist. Any info would be great as I am not able to audition either in a live situation.
The deatails are: Play 99% arco in a 4 piece (Bass, Classical Guitar, Bouzouki, Vocals) - AI Clarus, Whizzy 10, Belcantos. We play all sorts of venues from small rooms to festivals.
I have been using a Blue condensor Kickball mic (yep, its red!) into the Clarus with it placed just infront of the bridge maybe 10-15cm. It sounds ok but as you can imagine I just cant get any volume out of it.
I like the idea of the realist because its simple and my feedback issues will be drastically reduced.
I like the idea of the DPA because its a mic and easily transferable (for when my old french bass resto is done)but am over feedback.
With the DPA do you think I would notice a reduction in feedback compared to my current set up?
Realist and arco, opinions? I know this is a topic that has been discussed but I am after arco specific advice.
Cheers

 

[Don Sibley]

Why can't you try it out in a live situation? You can't return a Realist but you can audition David Gage's latest pickup, The Lifeline. Gollihur (gollihurmusic.com) is offering a 7 day trial on the Lifeline and almost every retailer that sells the DPA will offer 30 day refunds.

If you really want to use a mic but are concerned about feedback, I've heard the Troll ribbon mic offers really high off-axis rejection. It is designed and sold by fellow TB'er Brandon Essex.

I own the DPA, love the sound, and have been able to achieve really high gain before feedback. I think the trick is elevating your speaker cabinet to about ear-level so it's not causing your bass to resonate and feedback.

The drummer in this clip isn't really taking it easy on me. https://soundcloud.com/don-sibley/oleo

 

[what the pluck]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I have read about the troll mic and am not clear if I would need any other pre or anything or if it could run straight into my AI. I am s big fan of ribbon mics, i had s no name pair that came out of a factory in russia (according yo the seller) that sounded amazing on everything in the studio, especially for overheads through a nice valve pre. Im not sure if the troll is available in Oz either to audition. I am in Australia so the offer from golligher might b a bit difficult. I will however check out retailers down here. I did have a K and K bass max as well for a while and was running that throug a Sansamp bass driver, ok for pizz but I couldn't deal with the arco. Would a realists response/ sound be similar or are they worlds apart ?

I really only need about 10-15% more volume in most situations before feedback and I will be happy.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hi there
I have been looking around at my options and have narrowed it down to the dpa 4099b or a realist. Any info would be great as I am not able to audition either in a live situation.

While there are no absolutes, when you are deciding between a Realist and the DPA 4099B, I’ve owned both of them, and the tone quality of the DPA is far superior to the Realist. That’s not saying that the Realist doesn’t have a nice sound, because it does, but the DPA sounds better. It’d certainly want to demo the new Realist Lifeline as it is so simple to install and remove.

The deatails are: Play 99% arco in a 4 piece (Bass, Classical Guitar, Bouzouki, Vocals) - AI Clarus, Whizzy 10, Belcantos. We play all sorts of venues from small rooms to festivals.

I’ve used the DPA 4099 F.O.H. in various different venues, it’s always performed well. As long as you are accustomed and familiar with the limitations of a microphone the DPA will give you a very acoustic sound especially with a bow.

In my experience, it doesn't work as your only sound source, directly into a bass amplifier. IMHO, if that's how you amplify your instrument, then the Realist would be the more appropriate choice. Quite frankly, it you're only going with one sound source
then the pickup is the better choice IMHO.

I like the idea of the realist because its simple and my feedback issues will be
drastically reduced.

This the advantage of a pickup, over even the finest microphone. The Realist Life Line may get you what you want, at a significantly lower price, and go louder than the DPA. I would certainly try to play on a bass that has one. It's cost is $229.00 U.S.

I like the idea of the DPA because its a mic and easily transferable (for when my old french bass resto is done)but am over feedback.

Since DPA has re designed the 4099 with a detachable cable, and optional gooseneck extension it is even more portable and durable. It's cost is $599.00 U.S. Since it's a condenser microphone, unless you are only playing venues with P.A. support you have to add the cost of a

Phantom power supply like the ART.

With the DPA do you think I would notice a reduction in feedback compared to my current set up?

You’ll have to demo it on some gigs to really know, but it’s shotgun design really does a great job of cancelling feed back and bleed through from other instruments.
To get it’s full potential you will need a phantom power supply that provides 48 volts. The DPA system is going to cost you a lot more money than the Realist. The Realist
will have the least potential for feeding back.


Ric

 

[bcamp]

Just got home from a gig where I played arco on Belcantos through a Realist and an AI Clarus, just like you. It was an outdoor gig on a patio at the base of a large ski resort so our FOH volume needed to be much louder than usual and I had no feed back issues. Amp placement is critical though - you really can't stand in front of it. I have a DPA also and I prefer the tone over the Realist. However, I have had a lot of issues with bleed from other instruments with the DPA in addition to more feedback issues.

 

[what the pluck]

Thanks for the reply Becamp. Sounds like a fun gig. What is the line up of your band? Just curios as to what levels you get to before the DPA starts to have issues. I am kind of leaning towards the DPA as we are only classical guitar, bouzouki and bass with no drums and I don't need a heap more volume and tone is pretty important to me. I think I'm just going to bite the bullet on it and see what happens at next Sundays gig.

Thanks ric, I have a Clarus which has phantom so I will be able to run the DPA. It has a direct out as well which is switchable to post/ pre eq so for larger gigs I will be able to send a clean sign FOH. I think I am going to work backwards and start at the top of my wish list and start with the DPA and if it doesn't work out I'll try plan B, and just throw more money into the pit!

 

[Ric Vice]

Thanks ric, I have a Clarus which has phantom so I will be able to run the DPA. It has a direct out as well which is switchable to post/ pre eq so for larger gigs I will be able to send a clean sign FOH. I think I am going to work backwards and start at the top of my wish list and start with the DPA and if it doesn't work out I'll try plan B, and just throw more money into the pit!

Based on the instrumentation of your band, I think it should work just fine. The Claris provides appropriate phantom voltage to have the DPA 4099B run at it's optimum signal to noise ratio. I'd still bring my pickup along, just incase you have difficulty with the DPA feeding back. AI amps also feature Phase Reverse, and Low Cut filters to help tame feedback.

Ric

 

[bcamp]

Hey "pluck". The band is all acoustic - two guitars, mandolin, violin and my upright, plus vocals. The DPA has only given me problems in this band when stage monitor levels get hot. Mostly, it's picking up resonant frequencies from the acoustic guitars resulting in feedback and mine really lets the violin bleed into it. However, I've also found that there's almost always a sweet spot somewhere on the stage where you can angle your bass in a certain direction and the DPA will stay pretty quiet. I still think, tone wise, it's the best thing out there and it works great with the Clarus. One more thing. With the Clarus, you can run the DPA in one channel and the Realist in the other channel. I do this frequently and it gives some amazing tonal options. Use one or the other or blend them to taste, depending on the room. Good luck!

 

[what the pluck]

Ok, so I got the DPA and will road test it tomorrow. My initial impression is that it's a well made quality product but it just seems odd to me that they haven't put much thought in to the cable and its routing and the xlr jack. That side if it seems like a potential headache prone to cable breaking. I'm sure I can come up with a solution though, just would of been the icing on the cake if they addressed this.

How have you got the cable etc routed?

Cheers

 

[Don Sibley]

How have you got the cable etc routed?

I just wound the tiny cable into a small circle with a twist tie and then mounted the belt clip of the XLR jack on my bow quiver. Haven't looked back.

 

[Stick_Player]

Ok, so I got the DPA and will road test it tomorrow. My initial impression is that it's a well made quality product but it just seems odd to me that they haven't put much thought in to the cable and its routing and the xlr jack. That side if it seems like a potential headache prone to cable breaking. I'm sure I can come up with a solution though, just would of been the icing on the cake if they addressed this.

How have you got the cable etc routed?

Cheers

I have a DPA 4099. The cable became "stuck" and would not remove from the mic gooseneck - the extensions were problematic anyway (the first one crackled, the replacement also crackled). I sent the "stuck" cable and mic back to DPA, and they replaced it free-of-charge.

Great mic, though.

Recently, I tried out the $20 Radio Shack mic. You can refer to this post, to see how I "rigged" it up. The RS mic does not require phantom power (I was using a Denecke PS1-A to power the DPA), it requires a 457 battery instead.

Also, when using my RS mic-rig, I now have a volume control, on the bass.

I haven't made any records with the RS mic. However, considering the vast $500+ price difference, I don't hear it. I have tried both the DPA or RS through my PJB Super Flightcase, and recording console/Dynaudio monitors.

I mix the Realist, via Docking Station, along with a mic (RS or DPA), to a Headway EDB-1.

The mic brings out the "life" of the instrument (any instrument, for that matter) - the presence - specially when using a bow. Otherwise, the Realist pickup alone sounds more like a Hofner Beatle bass guitar.

When the gig is REALLY loud, I use a NSDesign EUB.

The DPA is now used exclusively for Violin/Viola/Banjo/Mandolin.

 

[what the pluck]

I also have a RS but it didn't really work out for me in a live situation, recorded pizz was ok. Arco doesn't sound great to my ears with the RS on this bass. I have been looking for a solution for arco in a live situation.

The DPA worked really well for me first time out. I found the best spot for it on this cheaper bass in that room was pointing at where the sound post meets the top of the bass. It seemed to have a good balance between the strings there and didn't pick up any squeaky bowing! I was really just re enforcing the acoustic sound a bit but I did crank the Clarus to see what I could get out of it. For my needs I think this set up is ideal. I ended up mounting the xlr with the belt clip on the tail wire that goes around the end pin and the cable wound up with a Velcro strap around the tail piece.

 

[Stick_Player]

I also have a RS but it didn't really work out for me in a live situation, recorded pizz was ok. Arco doesn't sound great to my ears with the RS on this bass. I have been looking for a solution for arco in a live situation.

The DPA worked really well for me first time out. I found the best spot for it on this cheaper bass in that room was pointing at where the sound post meets the top of the bass. It seemed to have a good balance between the strings there and didn't pick up any squeaky bowing! I was really just re enforcing the acoustic sound a bit but I did crank the Clarus to see what I could get out of it. For my needs I think this set up is ideal. I ended up mounting the xlr with the belt clip on the tail wire that goes around the end pin and the cable wound up with a Velcro strap around the tail piece.

I agree, the DPA is-the-way-to-go. But, $600 mic, preamp, and phantom power, gets pricey.

Did you mount/position the Radio Shack mic the same way as the DPA?

Stuffing the RS mic into an F-hole, as others do, gave me bad results.

 

[what the pluck]

Hi, yeah I tried the RS a number of ways. I found in the f hole was ok for pizz in the studio but no where else. I tried putting it in the bridge, in one of the carved out sections. I then made a clamp out of a bull clip and wire so I could position it in different places. Maybe it's just me but I couldn't get a decent sound and feedback was always an issue going directly into the Clarus.

I got the DPA for $499 Aust, no need for a preamp plus the Clarus has phantom do its pretty easy and ready to go. I found the battery on the RS didn't last too long. But your right, if you can get the RS to work it's a big saving but hey we are musicians, this is what we do, spend thousands of dollars and drive hundreds of miles for 50 bucks! Well you know what I mean.

 

[Ric Vice]

I agree, the DPA is-the-way-to-go. But, $600 mic, preamp, and phantom power, gets pricey.

Did you mount/position the Radio Shack mic the same way as the DPA?

Stuffing the RS mic into an F-hole, as others do, gave me bad results.

I purchased the Ovid TBone as a backup to my DPA 4099B. It's a decent microphone, not a DPA mind you but it costs about $175.00, shipped from Europe. Here are pictures of the mic. All the information is on their site.
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[Stick_Player]

I purchased the Ovid TBone as a backup to my DPA 4099B. It's a decent microphone, not a DPA mind you but it costs about $175.00, shipped from Europe. Here are pictures of the mic. All the information is on their site.
Invalid Link Removed

I have seen this. Interesting.

Obviously, lots of options other than the DPA 4099.

Glad I have the DPA, though.